# Annotating observations that include multiple individuals **URL:** \ **Category:** General\ **Tags:** question\ **Created:** [March 29, 2023, 3:16pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/annotating-observations-that-include-multiple-individuals/40445 "2023-03-29T15:16:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![plantarum](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/plantarum/32/1834_2.png) [@plantarum](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/plantarum)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2023, 3:16pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/annotating-observations-that-include-multiple-individuals/40445/1 "2023-03-29T15:16:30Z")
I’ve read several other threads on this topic, and I understand it’s a contentious issue. But the particular case I’m interested in seems to be confounded by several policies that are difficult to reconcile. The case in hand: we are studying a plant with separate male and female individuals, which may differ slightly in phenology and distribution. They also frequently grow close together, and many folks don’t realize this is a dioecious species at all. We would like to annotate observations so we can track males and females separately. Observations often have both sexes present, as here: [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/69223601](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/69223601) According to policy, this is incorrect, as each of the plants should be its own observation. As I understand it, only the observer can make a duplicate record to split the male and female plants. The sex annotation only includes male, female, and unknown, none of which are correct. This leaves only one correct resolution: requesting the poster split/clone their observation so I can annotate each plant separately. That seems tedious, and maybe a bit off-putting to the original poster. It would add an extra layer to our efforts to annotate specimens, if we have to contact many observers and wait for a response before completing the task. I understand there is reluctance to allow annotations that would admit multiple individuals are present in a single observation, but in a case like this it would be very useful to check both male and female for the observation. On a related note, in plants there are species in which individuals can be single sex or hermaphrodite, and having a bisexual/hermaphrodite category would be useful. In this case, there are, very rarely, actual hermaphrodite Rubus chamaemorus (i.e., individuals with perfect/bisexual flowers), and it would be _very_ interesting to find one of those. My preference would be to allow multiple sex annotations for a single observation (and also to add a hermaphrodite category). But if that’s not permissible, what would be the recommended approach here? ---
**Author:** ![ncb1221](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/ncb1221/32/9877_2.png) [@ncb1221](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/ncb1221)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2023, 3:28pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/annotating-observations-that-include-multiple-individuals/40445/2 "2023-03-29T15:28:58Z")
One solution or workaround would be a similar project like the one I created for [Multiple Life Stages](https://www.inaturalist.org/projects/multiple-life-stages). ---
**Author:** ![cthawley](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/cthawley/32/1445_2.png) [@cthawley](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/cthawley)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2023, 3:30pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/annotating-observations-that-include-multiple-individuals/40445/3 "2023-03-29T15:30:39Z")
I think you’ve laid out your options well. I will note that posting pictures of different individuals of a species in one observation is ok (I wouldn’t say it is incorrect per se), it can just cause some issues - one of which you’ve identified here. There’s an existing and open discussion around annotations and potential issues here: [https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/lets-talk-annotations/627](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/lets-talk-annotations/627) I believe that this issue (and/or similar) have been discussed to some extent (it’s a long thread…) ---
**Author:** ![plantarum](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/plantarum/32/1834_2.png) [@plantarum](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/plantarum)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/annotating-observations-that-include-multiple-individuals/40445/4 "2023-03-29T16:06:31Z")
Yes, I’ve read some of that thread. But at 520 posts and counting, it’s a bit unwieldy to participate in that conversation! Hence the new thread. ---
**Author:** ![marina\_gorbunova](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/marina_gorbunova/32/31454_2.png) [@marina\_gorbunova](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/marina_gorbunova)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2023, 4:12pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/annotating-observations-that-include-multiple-individuals/40445/5 "2023-03-29T16:12:37Z")
This exact theme was also discussed, you can annotate any specimen that you see on all photos, choose one you like the most. ---
**Author:** ![plantarum](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/plantarum/32/1834_2.png) [@plantarum](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/plantarum)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/annotating-observations-that-include-multiple-individuals/40445/6 "2023-03-29T16:15:02Z")
Sure, but in this case I’d like to have the observation show up in both a list of male plants and a list of female plants. If I pick one or the other, I lose half the value. ---
**Author:** ![marina\_gorbunova](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/marina_gorbunova/32/31454_2.png) [@marina\_gorbunova](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/marina_gorbunova)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/annotating-observations-that-include-multiple-individuals/40445/7 "2023-03-29T16:18:54Z")
You lose everything if you annotate nothing, without duplication it’s not possible. ---
**Author:** ![deboas](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/deboas/32/45_2.png) [@deboas](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/deboas)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2023, 6:15pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/annotating-observations-that-include-multiple-individuals/40445/8 "2023-03-29T18:15:59Z")
You could download the observation data and duplicate the ones you want to annotate as both in that dataset. Or you could start a project on the species and use journal posts to educate users about what you want them to record. Some will be interested, others not. ---
**Author:** ![cwbarrows](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/cwbarrows/32/1250_2.png) [@cwbarrows](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/cwbarrows)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2023, 9:35pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/annotating-observations-that-include-multiple-individuals/40445/9 "2023-03-29T21:35:51Z")
If you go this route, it would probably be better to make a custom observation field, similar to the ones for multiple life stages ([https://www.inaturalist.org/observation\_fields?utf8=✓&q=multiple+life+stages&commit=Search](https://www.inaturalist.org/observation_fields?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=multiple+life+stages&commit=Search)) created by @ncb1221 - I don’t see any existing similar fields for multiple sexes. That way, the time you invest can help improve the data for everyone - might save someone else the trouble of duplicating efforts. The observation fields aren’t nearly as user-friendly as annotations, but they accomplish the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![cthawley](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/cthawley/32/1445_2.png) [@cthawley](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/cthawley)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2023, 10:40pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/annotating-observations-that-include-multiple-individuals/40445/10 "2023-03-29T22:40:49Z")
The advantage of that thread is that it is monitored by staff and suggestions there may be used in future iterations of the annotation system. ---
**Author:** ![caththalictroides](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/caththalictroides/32/435_2.png) [@caththalictroides](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/caththalictroides)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2023, 1:34pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/annotating-observations-that-include-multiple-individuals/40445/11 "2023-03-30T13:34:37Z")
Whatever you decide to do, I hope you will come back here and post it. I would also like to track sex in plants; if you decide, for example, to create a custom observation field, I would use yours, rather than creating yet another similar observation field. ---
**Author:** ![ncb1221](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/ncb1221/32/9877_2.png) [@ncb1221](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/ncb1221)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2023, 3:32pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/annotating-observations-that-include-multiple-individuals/40445/12 "2023-03-30T15:32:33Z")
I went ahead and created a traditional project for observations with [Multiple Sexes](https://www.inaturalist.org/projects/multiple-sexes) Feel free to join and add any and all relevant observations. Hopefully this can help out some people in their searches. ---
**Author:** ![jasonhernandez74](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/jasonhernandez74/32/33615_2.png) [@jasonhernandez74](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/jasonhernandez74)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2023, 11:06pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/annotating-observations-that-include-multiple-individuals/40445/13 "2023-03-30T23:06:57Z")
> [@caththalictroides](#): > > if you decide, for example, to create a custom observation field, I would use yours, rather than creating yet another similar observation field. If only your approach was the norm… ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/inaturalist/original/2X/7/7831452cf7f0d653ff1ffd34176334b7ef1b6a17.png) [@system](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 11:07pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/annotating-observations-that-include-multiple-individuals/40445/14 "2023-05-29T23:07:30Z")
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