Give a Guess When You Reduce an ID to Casual

Well, see, sure, from the perspective of a working scientist who potentially wants to use iNat data, an observation of a potted cactus uploaded without an ID and not marked as captive/cultivated is an annoyance and may be felt to be a waste of time that could be better used in other ways. From this perspective, making the observation casual is a quick and efficient solution.

But with respect to the needs and desires of the observer, it is neither a helpful nor a particularly generous response. Typically, people who upload such observations are not doing so because they don’t care about producing valuable data or are too lazy to enter even a broad ID – they are doing so because they don’t understand how iNat works or what its purpose is. They don’t know why it is helpful to enter an ID and they may think that iNat is just an app for sharing photos of “nature” (in the sense of non-human lifeforms) and getting an ID for them. From their perspective, what they are doing is a perfectly legitimate use of iNat.

When someone marks their observation as captive/cultivated without adding an ID or a comment, they will not get any sort of notification and they may not see that the label on their observation has changed from “needs ID” to “casual” or understand what that means. They won’t ask “why” because they don’t know what happened and they may not even know that they can see who marked their observation as casual (and if the observer does ask “why”, as the person marking the observation as casual, you will likewise not get a notification and know to respond unless you either actively subscribe to notifications for that observation or the observer knows enough to tag you).

And once the observation is casual, it is unlikely that they will get much additional feedback on it, because the majority of IDers do not spend much time looking at casual observations. So all the observer will learn from this is that their observation has not gotten any engagement. They may continue uploading observations of potted plants without an ID because they don’t know any better, or they may conclude that iNat is stupid and useless and abandon it entirely.

Whereas if the person looking at the observation takes a few more seconds and leaves a comment explaining why they have done what they did, the observer may be able to learn from this to better understand how to use iNat.

Now, we can discuss whether the onboarding new users is something that should rely on the volunteer activity of other users. (I would certainly like to see better integrated support and tutorials to guide users through what is a fairly complex system.) And of course nobody is required to look at unknowns if they feel their time is better spent elsewhere or they do not have the patience to explain iNat to new users. But if one chooses to do so, I think it is reasonable to at least be aware that the observer might benefit from more feedback than would be provided by the course of action that is quickest for the IDer.

(I’ll add that I don’t think it is particularly helpful to think about IDing as unpaid labor by specialists who selflessly donate their time and expertise without deriving any benefit themselves, any more than observers are unpaid field assistants who are not sufficiently conscientious to provide good, usable data for scientists. Thinking of the observer-IDer relationship merely as a transaction seems guaranteed to lead to frustration and unhappiness on both sides. I think it is more productive to instead think of it as a collaboration that involves sharing knowledge in a community, with all parties benefiting.)

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I imagine a person, an average person who likes plants. Garden plants, plants she sees out in the world, the plants she remembers from her childhood, all plants. She doesn’t know very much about them though she has always wanted to learn a bit more.

She uploads a potted cactus because she does not know what type of cactus it is, but she keeps it on her desk at work and she is hoping to care for it better. Perhaps it is the first upload, perhaps it is the fifth, who knows.

The problem is that the user is not notified that the Observation has been marked Casual. It is not so much the equivalent of a conversational response as the equivalent of taping a note to someone’s back, the person unaware. You think the next response should come from them but they do not know any action has been taken.

Let us say the new user, who really does worry about her cactus, checks iNaturalist a few days later and finds a little gray box word, Casual. She is likely to be startled to discover any action has occurred at all and not know by whom – your name will not appear as having marked it Casual. She will have to intuit to scroll and to and where, hover, because there is no name, only a little checkmark, click, then either go to your profile to message you or @ you in the observation to ask, “What does this mean?”

That she will then be met with:

just makes me a little sad, that’s all.

Thank you for all your identification work.

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Does iNat have a polite and helpful copypasta geared to newbies?
I could add another text expander for the future.
Given that - is this Wild or Not - is a perennial question on iNat - it is hard to explain to a newbie. Well, but, even we, don’t always agree, so …

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I think before any copypasta (which may or may not be in the right language, etc), just accepting the CV “Cacti” Family Cactaceae is a kindness, a prelim identification. That at least serves as a notification and may put the potted plant in the workflow of someone more interested.

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There are other options for IDing a potted plant. I have the Picture This app on my phone and have often used that for cultivated plant IDs. As I recall it even advises on proper care. Plus there’s all the FB groups for plants which I don’t use. INat has a certain set of functions and it might not be the ideal place for all nature-related needs or for all people.

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Right, this was just me fleshing out the potted cactus example provided.

But as has been detailed in other threads, the CV here is among the most accurate. And maybe potted plants are as close as some people come to nature during the workday. Or maybe this is a gateway Observation, her first, and she will go on to become a wonderful Observer and learn more. We have no way of knowing, but if we slam the door, we never will.

I just think it behooves us to be kind.

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And if it is clear from their notes that the observer wants to know what their cultivated plant is (rather than just trying out the app), one could suggest to them that they might get more response posting their potted cactus on one of those sites (I have in fact seen some IDers suggest exactly this). It seems like this would likely make everyone happier than silently marking an observation as casual with no explanation and maybe having the user continue to post observations and not understand why nobody seems to be willing to help them.

(As I noted upthread, I do often enough mark observations as casual without further comment – if the observer has already gotten feedback on other observations and/or has long abandoned iNat. But I’d push back against an idea that just because iNat may not be a good fit for what a user is interested in, this is a automatically good reason for simply writing them off without providing them a bit of information so they can decide for themselves.)

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I would mark this as location inaccurate rather than not wild. Although I think once you capture an animal and transport it away from its initial location, with no plan to return it, then it definitely counts as “captive”. So it’s either/or, at least one of those two.

On the other hand I understand that fish market observations have a lot of value, and that it’s usually impossible to determine what the actual location was… One of those instances where the current “casual” system is kind of misleading and unhelpful.

Or maybe these should be treated similarly to escaped pets where intuitively they should be made casual but we just use an annotation instead.

Previous threads on this:

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It’s not just fish markets, though. Just about anything tossed up dead on a beach, from seaweed to whale carcasses, would have to be called “casual” because the organism did not live on that beach or choose to be there. It only wound up there because that’s where the waves and currents took it.

I disagree, although technically that is correct: the organism did not intend to be there. But it got there without human intervention through natural processes, so it is not a case of captive/cultivated.

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That I didn’t know. Appears to me to be a flaw of sorts. They should be notified.
Yes, if it is like that, then there is an issue with this procedere. Agreed.

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Bah, but this is never how I would react to them directly!
Someone asks me, they will get lots of detailed info.
And friendly language. Which also includes a “Thank you” from the observer to anyone taking their time to interact with their stuff. Maybe I perceive this strongly because as someone who spends a significant time of his life on IDing stuff of others, I am a little tired of constantly reading “how rude/arrogant/gatekeeping we identifiers are” in one way or the other, whereas an occasional “Thank you” of any user always is a tonic that really keeps me going.

This entire reply is very similar to my thoughts of this, thank you. I feel that I am not always so adept at articulating these thoughts and so I appreciate how well this sums it up. The only addition I want to make is that, again, part of the work and benefit of iNat is this feedback and interaction with a newer, more casual, perhaps layman or young group of individuals who’s tie to “nature” may not be as strong as the rest of us. You say these hypothetical uploaders might not know “what [iNat’s] purpose is”, which I want to continue to emphasize can be multifaceted. iNat can be about citizen science, and about enjoying your time outdoors, and about connecting with people online, and about helping strangers enjoy the world around them. @ItsMeLucy puts it in beautifully succinct terms

The value of getting someone anyone interested in the world around them and fostering an open curiosity for nonhuman life is HUGE!!

I am currently getting a PhD focused on how plants alter the biogeochemistry and hydrology of uninhabited coastal barrier islands. I am working with “wild” plants now, but I did not start here. I started learning about plants from the farming practices of my family, and from the potted plants in my grandma’s front porch. My closest interactions with roots and first understanding of microclimates (though not by that name) was with cultivated, captive, potted plants. Do you see where I’m going with this?

I would also just like to add: iNat can be such a lovely excuse to get outside. To me at least, there’s an innate satisfaction in finding something new, learning more about it and seeing how others have found it or what they think. I do not return to iNat on a daily basis because I feel I need to provide my pro-bono labor for the good of human scientific endeavor. Don’t get me wrong, that’s a cool part of it (though I do not see it as “pro-bono labor”), but being outside feels good, y’all. iNat encourages me in my deepest depression and anxiety-ridden state to walk down the street and look at the grass, or even look a little closer at the spider trying to escape the jaws of my cat and I know I’m not the only one who feels that way. Again like @ItsMeLucy has said (sorry for tagging twice)

There may be users among us who are just looking for a little more to their little world on a gray winter day.

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Personally, it depends on the observation. For low quality observations (blurry green specks) or for observations of cut ornamental flowers, I just mark them as captive. For potted plants or garden plants I try to give an ID or leave them in Needs ID.

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I hope my original post (and subsequent replies) aren’t being understood to mean “all you ID’ers are rude/arrogant etc. and aren’t doing enough for this community” – if this is where some of the more (perhaps frustrated?) responses are coming from in this thread I want to apologize for this miscommunication. I am not trying to attack anyone, or put more pressure or demands of “the ID’ers” (as if I am not one too), I’m actually trying to petition the perspective that “Casual” observations could use our help for different reasons than maybe first considered. And that there are people on the other sides of these posts who we are subtly influencing.

I actually am of the opinion that we make a bigger difference in our small-scale interaction-by-interaction with other humans on the site than we are with the big data GBIF numbers at the end of the day. I really am sorry that so many ID’ers seem to feel stressed or cynical toward the process. Perhaps this is part of the ultimate failure of the social internet where we each feel more and more isolated and attacked. You’re work matters and I do not think less of you as a human being if you decide to mark “Captives” without adding IDs. I was not trying to make a moral high-ground type argument with saying “in poor taste” so maybe I will edit that. I just would like to advocate for adding the littlest guess whenever possible as a consideration for the person on the other side of the screen.

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Can we quote without adding a comment? It just bears letting this stand on its own.

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