How to promote Inat to non-Inatters

General
21

It tells more about them than about you :wink: .
They are just silly, the iNat project does not need them.
Let them be and do not care about them, look forward, if you are interested in nature use iNat for your self, learn about animals, plants, mushrooms and what ever life form you observe. If you observe other people who are interested in plants or animals and passioned over some time, you can suggest them iNat just as a hint, like “oh i dont know what this plant is, it looks very interesting… do you know this strange iNat app, they can identify every life-form, even traces, upload it there they will tell you what it is, i heard that this is the best app and even scientists use it”.
Let them decide them self if they are passioned enough to install iNat and see if they find theyr obsession for slugs, or what ever theyr hobby will be.

I think this ambassador thing is not to understand like a PR-action to press people who have no interesst in nature to iNat.
Its more like to give a hint about the app to people who have interest in nature any way and to educate them in how to use iNat if they want to know it and ask for help.

Keep iNatting if you are interested in nature, it is a good hobby, you learn a lot.
May later you will get a great biologist and you will save the world from what ever will come, while the others will stand still in theyr fantasy football horde.

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22

Somewhere was a nice post from an educator. Going to start their students on IDs. And only let them loose on their own obs, after they understand the IDing side. Effective way to motivate for pictures which show the relevant field marks!

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23

A effective way can also be if you drop a sidenote like “… you may not join the ‘Scatology’- or ‘Sculls and Bones’- or ‘Nature Drawing and Journaling’- or similar Projects” with a evil grin, and let that sink in.
Of course it will be the first thing they will do :grin: .

May then they will join first for theyr obsession of the disgusting and after the initial hype they will ask them self how on earth some one can know the difference between carnivoran and non-carnivoran scat, then they can go down the rabbit-hole :smiling_face_with_horns: :rofl:
The Skull and Bones project is also interesting to visual artists, and later they may end up in the Nature Drawing and Journaling project.
Even stuff like the plenty roadkill-projects can get them to end up as a passioned forensic.
Once they found theyr “rabbit hole” on iNat it will turn out to be a very interesting and endless tunnle where they will be trapped for the next few decades :laughing: .

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Nothing wrong with having fun, but if the idea is to promote thoughtful and responsible use of iNat, I don’t see how such strategies are useful.

iNat is already struggling to manage the growth that it is currently experiencing. The goal should not be to recruit more users merely for the sake of recruiting users. We don’t need more people joining iNat and adding lots of silly or low-quality observations on a whim without understanding that they are participating in a citizen science project and that their engagement with nature is also research data.

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In my view, I’d emphasize trying to bring in new identifiers over new observers. Of course any new user should understand the complete process, but I’d rather recruit three focused new people than thirty who barely paid attention. Onboarding and mentoring takes time, but it’s worth it.

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26

Mission: iNaturalist’s mission is to connect people to nature and advance biodiversity science and conservation.

I think to connect people to nature means also to bring people in connection to nature which are not already connected to nature.

I think its wrong to prevent people from connecting to nature because there is no one on earth who can ID every life form on the planet.

People may mostly join iNat because they want a ID as a quick result.
Fact is, many observations do not even get any basic ID in some years, and that is also OK.
To me even the idea that iNat can or must ID every thing sounds a bit ridiculous.
Sure there is more input like observations than output like IDs, and it would be nice if it would be the other way around, but that is not realistic at all.

Also i do not think that it would even help to make it some sort of closed project exclusive to IDers or only professional photographers or only people wo can afford a professional equipment.
In the opposite, i think the first step is to find any thing that makes individuals nosey about nature, some curious stuff that will rise questions in them on which they will want some answers. So they will get interested in the first place, so they will find theyr quest in nature and it will take them on a positive adventure. If it awakes theyr passion, they later may even will get IDers them self.
I think it is an important investment into the future to get new people and by that also new IDers, else i fear the group of IDers will shrink even more to a group of 100 year old pros among them self.

Of course no one wants more stupid crap on iNat like shopping lists, door keys, shoes, pokemon stickers, not even the minerals which at least would make more sense as it has a connection to nature, but people who upload such nonsense will disappear even by them self very fast from iNat.
iNat is not that super interesting as a platform for trolling, it has not that deep private personal relation to make trolling an interesting thing.
Also most the silly observations are from new users who want to test if the iNat AI can distinguish between some cable, worm or snake, or between a ladybug and a ladybug chocolate, such people will get fascinated by the AI and nature or they will delete the app one hour later.

An other thing are observations in low quality, some people do not have a budget to buy a professional cam, may they just have a old upcycled mobile phone, this makes them or theyr observations not less worth and theyr honest interest in nature has not less value than the interest of any other.

If quality is just one shiny photo, then may a magazine about nature and science is the better choice, iNat is a citizen science project that any one at the age of around 13 years can join.
Also there are also many so called professionals who think that quality is only to take one photo, may even post edited, at the end they are so professional in batch upload stuff that they do not even give a basic ID them self. I think some photos are in fact really nice but some times it takes more than that, to me a good observations on the example of plants can include the plant as a whole, single leaves, knots, different phases, the stem, the bottom side of leaves and such details, it does not matter if it is a shiny photo as long it is useful.

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27

I agree! These guys joined because they saw me doing it in class my senior year and thought it would be funny to join. They still don’t change…

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I never said anything about preventing people from connecting with nature. Nor did I suggest that iNat should be reserved for people who can take professional quality photos. My reference to “low quality” was rather about observations where there are other problems that could be avoided with a bit of effort and time spent learning how to use iNat (incomplete information, inappropriate subjects, failure to correctly group photos of one organism in a single photo, photos taken from unnecessarily far away, etc.)

But I would question how much “connecting with nature” actually happens when people have been encouraged to sign up for a competition or because they think it is a game and all they end up doing is taking a bunch of pictures or garden plants and random objects and using the CV to get IDs without ultimately thinking about what they saw.

There are plenty of other ways that people can be encouraged to connect with nature that do not require using iNat and will not result in generating nonsense data. I mean, there are also options like Seek, if they merely want to have fun exploring and adding species to their list and like the idea of taking a picture and getting an automatic and instant ID.

But when there are loads and loads of these observations – as is not uncommon when people are introduced en masse to iNat without any understanding of what they are doing – it is not a trivial issue. Because these observations cumulatively take up the time and energy of other users and this has a negative impact on everyone, including new users who are genuinely interested and might stick around if they got more feedback from the community.

In many cases, when someone decides that iNat is not for them, they may have already created a few dozen or a few hundred observations. And deleting the app from their phone does not necessarily mean that they also delete their account and their observations, meaning that other users are left to deal with all of these observations by an observer who is no longer around to respond.

So if one is going to be taking the time to give a presentation on iNat, in a situation where the audience are not required to use it, why not give that presentation in such a way that it encourages people not just to engage with nature as a game, but to understand the broader context in which their observations will be submitted – i.e., to see themselves as participating in scientific data collection and contributing to knowledge about biodiversity?

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I have an obs of porcupine scat - which attracted this comment from an indignant prof - You took pictures of porcupine poop?

Yes. I did. This is iNat?

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I’ve had to explain to university professors to mark their observations as Captive/Cultivated. It feels really weird to explain it to them.

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Actually i am giving basic IDs to one called “dbgi”, just to get them out of the unknowns.
I dont think this is not a professional, i even more think it is a professional, super batch upload and with potential value as reference material, but no worth at all without ID, some is unknown some is labeled as “nan” some observations have placeholders which do not exist on iNat yet.
He is uploading and i think we can be thankful for this reference material, but no basic IDs!
Is such a person not connected to nature, not interested, no passion?
I think some one who seems to gen-code his stuff is not one who is not a professional or some one who has no passion in nature or science.
If we want to ID this reference material, we can ID it or we let it be, there is no problem with that.
But yes, if such professionals or others dont apply basic IDs then it is what you call “nonsense material”, such people also could go other ways and connect in nature in a private hidden chamber… how ever i am thankful for this material, you may less.

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Firstly, you are only required to support (not necessarily single-handedly dream up, design, promote and coordinate) the two events. Second, my reading of the scheme is that “event” is intentionally very vaguely defined in order to embrace the creativity of ambassadors and allow them to play to their own strengths and adapt to their audience. So it might be an in-person talk/lecture/bioblitz, but it could equally be something virtual. I get the impression that they would allow you to count almost any kind of outreach as an “event” like, say, getting yourself interviewed about iNat on local radio. With time, the terms of being an ambassador will likely evolve, but it seems that for now they are keeping it very open to see where it goes and what people think up.

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33

I’m all for getting more people interested in nature because they then will likely be supportive of actions that help conserve the natural world. iNat is one way to do that, but if a person isn’t interested in photo’ing and uploading observations then it’s not right for them. I interact with a lot of birders (most are eBirders) and biologists who don’t use iNat but are definitely “into nature.” I won’t push them to join iNat but if they show an interest I will certainly talk to them about it.

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34

it makes me laugh .. a “birder” :rofl:
There are some gamifications out there, one should do a “what is your type”-test based on your iNat observations “find your type, are you a birder or cater or may more a bater or anter?” … may you just end up as a planter :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

35

I’ve had luck with gardeners by showing them that you can keep a running log of wildlife visitors to each plant in their gardens (by using observation fields like “name of associated plant”). Many people don’t realize this is possible and several of the people I speak to who have never been on iNat are excited by this. It doesn’t mean they all join… but they’re at least appreciative of it.

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36

The only tips I have is to be passionate, confident, and persistent.. thats all im working with anyway. Best way to grow is to get uncomfortable in my opinion.

With no real experience doing large talks or presentations I plan on talking to leadership at my work-site about potentially spearheading an ELG (employee led group) called NOA next week. Naturalists Of Amazon. These are called affinity groups, where our local sites use their resources to involve employees in community efforts. My goal is to partner with our metropark systems and the zoo to hold monthy walk and talks where I would like to communicate various community science initiatives and teach/encourage people to use INat. With the recent discussions about the disproportionate amout of IDs to Obs being made, ID encouragement and quality assurance are a priority of mine.

My site has around 1.5k employees that I can advertise to and if I can get in the flow of running this id like to eventually do more outreach towards the public.

I anticipate some that get involved to have a lack of interest and at a point theres nothing else to do but wear your passions on your sleeves and hope it rubs off.

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Professors are not always as smart as we would hope they’d be.

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No, this isn’t what I was referring to. I specified the sorts of observations I was concerned about.

Please note that I was responding to your suggestions of recruiting users to join iNat by treating it as a game or telling them “don’t look at this project” in order to trick them into becoming interested, as though iNat were something unappealing that people needed to be cajoled into participating in. And I would question whether people who need such motivations in order to be convinced to use iNat are likely to stick around and ultimately contribute in a meaningful way to the community, instead of posting photos of pets or garden plants or litter or other unsuitable subjects.

I am not dismissing the value of iNat as an app that gets people engaged with nature by allowing them to take pictures of things and get an ID, but it is more than that. And unless one realizes that iNat is also a community and that the photos that one is uploading will potentially be used by scientists, one may have no particular reason to put any care into making one’s observations.

Instead of luring people with the promise of a fun game, why not instead prepare them to be able to participate consciously in iNat’s larger mission from the very start by helping them to understand what citizen science is and how their contribution can be valuable? Isn’t this more useful for everyone – including potential new users, some of whom might find the idea of contributing to biodiversity research to be exciting?

I don’t see the purpose of promoting iNat merely for the sake of having more people use iNat. There are plenty of reasons why people might not find that iNat is something they want to join – including people (such as biology students) who already care about and are engaged with nature.Why not simply tell them what it is, explain why you use it – if you are passionate that passion will show – and then let them decide whether it appeals to them or not?

Edit: iNat is neither a church concerned with the salvation of its congregation nor a company that requires new customers in order to continue to make a profit. It is more comparable to something like an amateur football club. There are no intrinsic benefits to participating rather than not participating. Some people will find it enjoyable, others may prefer other ways to get exercise and/or maintain social ties. But if you have to go to great lengths to convince someone that football is a fun activity in the first place, it is reasonably likely that they are not going to be a good fit long term.

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39

iNat is open for people around13 years plus, most people in that or any age need some motivation to do any thing.
when i joined iNat i did not need any ambassador-program, why does such a thing even exist?
Sure it would be nice if every one would just join because he seriously interested in nature and science, i my self did not, i just wanted an ID to see it this even works.
I became more interested over time, first i did some observations, then i got IDs, later some professionals did raid the comments on a stupid mint, thats all what i wanted to know, but they had one big discussion in my comment section about the stupid three hairs on the leave of that mint what distinguishs them between swamp- or water-mint, that was what me really got into iNat.
I turned from some one who just downloaded an app into an interested and i would also say passioned iNatter. They told me in the comments how important it is to take pictures from different angles, like the side below of a mushroom. I found the dead or alive or roadkill projects and it gave me a lot to think about, like what did kill the animals, how could it get prevented, or even the circle of life. Now i ID observations from professionals who seem to not care about any IDing at all on iNat.

Interest has to grow, to rise, it comes from 0 and may goes to 100%.
Sure it would be great if only people would join iNat which would be already connected 100% to nature, to make the postulated “mission” obsolet. But this at least very often is not the case and its the other way around.

Shortly i observed an earthworm, i thought that is a simple thing, but no it is not, i have learned that i must picture theyr lower side. To be honest i dont even know how to find the upper or lower side of an earthworm, does that mean that i should stop picturing them?
If i would not had pictured such a worm i would not even know that they have an upper or lower side, a scientist may would think that earthworms do not even exist in my region and even less some specific earthworms.
In such a case i think its more important to picture them any how to just let interested people know that earthworms exist, may once i will learn more about them and may one day i can ID them my self for other people. But my interest, as it is to most people, need the chance to get awake and to evolve.

If i ID observations from other people, i try to do the best, some may do pictures where i am not sure what they see or if they even see the same thing or may they are psychotic and hallucinate, but still i try the best, some may just have 12 observations 4 of them empty, some duplicates among the rest, so i still ID the non duplicates to show them that it works, and i ask them to delete the duplicates, or may even tell them how to do it better.

That is how i got into iNatting and so called connected to nature, and that is, if you ask me, what connects disconnected people to nature.
The postulate that iNat wants to connect people to nature would be dishonest if we just await serious biologists or scientists which are already connected.
If iNat does not want new curious iNatters then it may also does not need an so called Ambassador-Program. We could argue, if one needs an Ambassador-Program he is not interested enough him self, they just need to read the help files of which i more like the old FAQ than the new fragmented iDesk or what it is called like.
If some one already needs to be a pro in the first place this would be the way, but it probably would not be the way that would had got me my self into iNat.

I also disagree on your view on the Scatology-Project as a silly game. I in the first place also thought “what to hell is this crap?”, may like you think that it is some sort of silly game, but now i think that is super interesting, if i see observations where they even measure scat, or where they describe the scat in the notes in every detail it gets me even more!

Also the drawing project is super interesting, it also motivates me myself to do a own offline journal in aquarelles.

To you it is may all just silly or nonsense data, but to others this is what gets them connected and what awakes theyr passion, it can make them to want to do better observations or to get IDers them self, it is what connects them to nature and also to each other.

In the other hand, i even see curators which take pictures from the mountains, where you dont know if they are interested in the floorgras some where at the horizon or in the woods some where above or if they just batchuploaded they hollyday-pictures by batch-accident. And as they do not even give any taxon suggestion i interpret it as free to the IDer what is in focus, may just close enough to classify it a life, what is also fine to me.

And then there are also people who would be perfect IDers and you dont get them to iNat because in they view it is just a silly internet thing and they think that any thing serious can just happen in the library of theyr university.

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Now that sounds like a good approach. You can support this with examples of published research that uses iNat data. Rather than take the “class project” approach, i.e., let’s generate random datapoints without an objective or purpose, this better expresses what science is about. Research scientists do not take random measurements of random things; they have in mind a question they want to answer, and that in turn determines what measurements they take.

Many of us connected with nature long before iNat ever existed. Mycology clubs, backcountry trekking, fly fishing, tracking, permaculture… all these and more require an understanding of nature as part of their essential skill set.

On a listserv about survival skills, I have seen endless discussions on which species of plants are best for a fire-by-friction bow drill.

I couldn’t make up my mind whether to join the seminar or not. It seems like this is more suitable to a more social or outgoing person than I. Historically, I haven’t been much of an “ideas man” regarding events, although I do participate in events that others have planned, as long as I don’t have to do any facilitating. I’d rather work behind the scenes.

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