#IdentiFriday is the happiest day of the week

Not if the greenhouse as a whole is the considered “the gardening area.”

Hmm. Good point also.

Pardon me while I play devil’s advocate again, but: Outside these greenhouses are rather nice systematic, perennial, and rock gardens, not to mention the entire campus is an arboretum. But here and there, there are actual weeds. A bit of Garlic Mustard under a labeled tree. Some seedlings I strongly suspect are Cardamine impatiens lurking in the rock garden, hoping to escape the ruthless eyes of the gardeners. Certainly Gray Squirrels scampering along the paths, trying hard to plant acorns in the manicured borders. It’s all “the gardening area.”

But as hard as it is to draw the line, I think I draw it on the side of Cultivated for the “weeds” in the greenhouses, if only because they are clearly tolerated, perhaps encouraged, under the benches. I’ll go mark these observations of mine as Not Wild. And think again on the separation of humans and the natural world.


Only 12,000 Unknowns left from the 2022 CNC. That’s only about 4,000 a month to go through before the CNC comes around again.


We could do it, especially combining the CNC umbrella with with Jean-Philippe’s projects!


We absolutely can do it.

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But those aren’t the cultivated plants propagating themselves. A greenhouse plant propagating itself within the greenhouse is, in my mind, no different from a bedding plant propagating itself within the flower bed. The offspring are still depending on the cultivated conditions. It becomes wild when the offspring spread outside the greenhouse or flower bed.


Well, no. I have lots of weeds in my outdoor gardening area. So we can have weeds (wild plants) in our indoor gardening areas, too. Oxalis corniculatus, for example. And some weeds, like the liverwort Lunularia cruciata, are equally weedy inside and out, wherever the spores can go. Bottom line for me: Weeds in the greenhouse are wild, too.


The post I was replying to was about the offspring of the greenhouse plants.

Good point. Sorry.

I think offspring of the greenhouse plants are more problematic. However, I think they may be wild, especially if they greenhouse crew kills them off when they can.

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Make enough pictures so other users can too decide if it’s wild or not. I meet a lot of doubtful cases where just making more photos would make it clear if it’s wild or not. e.g. in Belarus there’s a plot of abandoned botanical garden, people post from it, but from their photos it’s impossible to see if the thing was planted there long ago or it propogated there by itself, very confusing.


It’s an interesting case. I don’t think there’s any question that native plants whose populations originate outside the greenhouse and colonize the greenhouse due to human indifference or in spite of humans not wanting them there would be considered wild. Humans didn’t intend them to grow there and they are exploiting “unnatural” conditions on their own.

Likewise, I think it’s clear that any plant introduced to the greenhouse that spreads/reproduces beyond it is also wild.

But for recruits from intentionally planted greenhouse plants I think they should be cultivated. Human gardeners know that plants reproduce and have an understanding that having plants in a greenhouse will lead to recruits. Just because they didn’t intend each specific individual of the species to be exactly where it is doesn’t mean it isn’t cultivated to me, especially if the plant requires the artificial conditions of the greenhouse for survival. The greenhouse is basically one big pot, a human environment intended for cultivation.

The help page says that for a similar situation to be wild: “garden plant that is reproducing on its own and spreading outside of the garden” (emphasis mine). I would consider the greenhouse the garden and this scenario to have met the first but not the second criterion for wild.

To draw a parallel to an analogous situation with animals (and use the example from the iNat help page), what if zebras reproduce in a zoo? The resulting baby zebra is not wild. The zoo intended the zebras to be there, even if it didn’t necessarily intend each baby zebra to be there and place them there individually. A greenhouse is basically a zoo for plants.


And while discussing this interesting topic (I btw. agree with everything @cthawley said and would interpret it the same way), it´s friday again!

So what are your IDing plans for the weekend?

For me personally, I am still on pisaurids, but am right now wandering south from Canada and have a look through the US now. The north american pisaurids got me hooked. I love how fairly easy and thus satisfying they are. It is kind of depressing that in Europe a lot of them need to stay at genus… in the US the case is mostly clear. And there ar soooo many needs ID, over 700 pages for pisaurids. So I am focussing on Pisaurina for now. Many many old ones hanging around at genus or species level thath are actually super easy. So yes, that is waht I call satisfying :-)


Unknowns for me, while watching NFL playoffs


Unknowns leftover from the 2022 CNC, in Mexico at the moment.


bird songs in eastern US


I don’t know if I should make this my goal.

The genus Bougainvillea is native to South America, but because it has such spectacular floral displays, it is planted ubiquitously anywhere the climate is warm enough for it to survive. Also because it has such spactacular floral displays, people seem to feel obligated to “observe” it everywhere it is planted. I see so many of them when I work on warm or tropical localities, it starts to tick me off.

The other day I went on a blitz – reviewed every non-casual Bougainvillea in the Greater Antilles and marked them all cultivated. Well, all except a few that look liked like they could possibly be “reproducing on its own and spreading outside of the garden.”

I’m sure there will soon be more. People can’t resist “observing” them. But yeah, I may have found a constructive means of taking out my life’s frustrations – pick a locality and review Bougainvillea. Watch the orange squares turn blue.


I was wondering about Bougainvillea, although I was too lazy myself to even figure out where the genus is native to. I guess my question is how much does it spread outside cultivated areas? Is it a “weed” in tropical areas, or is it largely confined to where it was planted (outside of its natural range, that is)?

I would like to go through somebody’s ids, preferrably if you add broad ids that I can narrow down or you help with misids and need another vote to help you. I’m in need to have somebody else in it cause it’s easy to tae own word back if you gave it to yourself, I have soms psychological problems and need something to kill time with. If you don’t want to add a comment, you can add a like to this post, anyway I will create a link with you by myself.

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You will have a steady supply of African insects coming from me.
I am too daunted to tackle Needs ID, and prefer to work with Unknowns. But

Needs ID insects in Africa (not South Africa)


I mean it really is spreading without assistance in a lot of south Texas. Pretty stuff but it gets every-damn-where