# Invasive versus native **URL:** \ **Category:** Nature Talk\ **Created:** [February 2, 2023, 2:31am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051 "2023-02-02T02:31:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tuktu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/tuktu/32/28361_2.png) [@Tuktu](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/Tuktu)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 2:31am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/1 "2023-02-02T02:31:30Z")
Hey there, Anyone interested in sharing their stories with an encounter of an invasive species being attack by a native species or vice versa with picture if possible. ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/inaturalist/original/3X/9/7/97da2d14b699563abf394a7763e1945f57d20df3.jpeg) After 20 minutes, the Goldenrod Crab Spider gave up her meal (Japanese Beetle) to my total dismay, I guess the Japanese beetles are here to stay. ---
**Author:** ![anon93074988](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7feea3/32.png) [@anon93074988](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/anon93074988)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 2:51am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/2 "2023-02-02T02:51:53Z")
I can’t talk about it. It makes me sad that we are judging the value of critters who didn’t ask to come to their new country. It’s basically taxon-ist. Shame on us. I am joking, but only slightly. 🙃 ---
**Author:** ![marina\_gorbunova](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/marina_gorbunova/32/31454_2.png) [@marina\_gorbunova](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/marina_gorbunova)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 3:21am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/3 "2023-02-02T03:21:54Z")
Actually a hard task, it’s easier to find introduced on introduced! Here’s a squirrel with a Manchurian walnut. ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/inaturalist/original/3X/6/f/6fa551938563a1e6699ac740b82ab77ab4604fe1.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![egordon88](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/egordon88/32/29204_2.png) [@egordon88](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/egordon88)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 6:10am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/4 "2023-02-02T06:10:53Z")
[https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/135631211](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/135631211) Native ant dragging invasive bee ---
**Author:** ![susanne-kasimir](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/susanne-kasimir/32/34021_2.png) [@susanne-kasimir](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/susanne-kasimir)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 10:30am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/5 "2023-02-02T10:30:27Z")
Native Natrix maura feeding on invasive Lepomis gibbosus [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/7230417](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/7230417) ---
**Author:** ![rinaturalist](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/rinaturalist/32/28697_2.png) [@rinaturalist](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/rinaturalist)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 11:47am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/6 "2023-02-02T11:47:13Z")
Invasive eating invasive is definitely easier for me to find on iNat. Here’s an example of one I found yesterday from Florida with an invasive giant ameiva eating an introduced brown basilisk, two species I don’t find all too often on iNat, nevertheless both in the same observation! [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/147801909](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/147801909) ---
**Author:** ![susanne-kasimir](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/susanne-kasimir/32/34021_2.png) [@susanne-kasimir](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/susanne-kasimir)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 12:23pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/7 "2023-02-02T12:23:21Z")
And then we have the native otter _Lutra lutra_ which seems to feed here exclusively on the introduced red crayfish _Procambarus clarkii_. I only find the scat, which I haven’t photographed (so far). I suppose I should. ---
**Author:** ![swampster](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/swampster/32/37519_2.png) [@swampster](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/swampster)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 1:20pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/8 "2023-02-02T13:20:22Z")
[_Solenopsis invicta_](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/130375391) (invasive) attacking [_Chloridea virescens_](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/137621993) (native). ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/inaturalist/original/3X/f/b/fbf38dd33db2d8912bc978704af48aac1738812e.jpeg) [_Leptoglossus phyllopus_](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/137173183) (native) feeding on [_Lonicera maackii_](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/137172408) (invasive). ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/inaturalist/original/3X/b/b/bb986711186720419e6dd64d27c7944e9ffdd099.jpeg) [_Anolis sagrei_](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/110011908) (invasive) eating [_Erythemis simplicicollis_](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/110011909) (native). ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/inaturalist/original/3X/7/c/7c9f5c06b277f22395f5dffd4fc73d86d2c58745.jpeg) [_Vespa crabro_](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/134173095) (invasive) attacking [_Leptoglossus phyllopus_](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/134173098) (native). ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/inaturalist/original/3X/9/6/96e80559a182fe1098c33b802d2e3990fb6c8a3a.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![That\_Bug\_Guy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/that_bug_guy/32/24914_2.png) [@That\_Bug\_Guy](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/That_Bug_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 6:36pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/9 "2023-02-02T18:36:45Z")
Here are few of mine. ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/inaturalist/original/3X/5/8/584bf2ccbc3727ff98132bf59c867d5caa8c7865.jpeg) A House Sparrow (invasive) eating a probable Two Striped Grasshopper (native) [https://inaturalist.ca/observations/137356834](https://inaturalist.ca/observations/137356834) ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/inaturalist/original/3X/5/7/57fcf95e06a08dac054d3735acd10d9c3a75cf97.jpeg) A Common Red Soldier Beetle (invasive) doing…something in a False Sunflower (native) [https://inaturalist.ca/observations/136388562](https://inaturalist.ca/observations/136388562) ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/inaturalist/original/3X/9/5/95cee71e8fa7ca9ea7cdefa9acd9cb6c037071fe.jpeg) A Jagged Ambush Bug (native) eating a European Common Blue (invasive) [https://inaturalist.ca/observations/134356003](https://inaturalist.ca/observations/134356003) And finally, ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/inaturalist/original/3X/1/a/1afcf3733e9b6a1f21a19e338f386cadac7d5212.jpeg) _Dermestes undulatus_ (invasive) breaking down a diseased American Robin (native). [https://inaturalist.ca/observations/130269214](https://inaturalist.ca/observations/130269214) ---
**Author:** ![raymie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/raymie/32/12650_2.png) [@raymie](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/raymie)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 7:59pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/10 "2023-02-02T19:59:25Z")
It has nothing to do with their place of origin, it’s their negative effect on the local ecosystem that makes them bad. ---
**Author:** ![anon93074988](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7feea3/32.png) [@anon93074988](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/anon93074988)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/11 "2023-02-02T20:33:46Z")
Can you find a definition of ‘invasive species’ that doesn’t mention them being from somewhere else? As in, something to do with their place of origin? I can’t. Nat Geo, US DOI, US NOAA…not exhaustive, but I’m stumped! Please help. ---
**Author:** ![raymie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/raymie/32/12650_2.png) [@raymie](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/raymie)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 8:44pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/12 "2023-02-02T20:44:23Z")
I would use Aldo Leopold’s definition - “A thing is right when it tends to preserve the integrity, stability, and beauty of the biotic community. It is wrong when it tends otherwise.” ---
**Author:** ![anon93074988](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7feea3/32.png) [@anon93074988](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/anon93074988)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 8:55pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/13 "2023-02-02T20:55:29Z")
That’s pretty cool, although it sounds to me like the difference between ‘pest’ and ‘not pest’ regardless of origin. As far as I can work out, ‘invasive’ specifically relates to ‘something from elsewhere’, which is also a ‘pest’. ---
**Author:** ![raymie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/raymie/32/12650_2.png) [@raymie](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/raymie)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 9:09pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/14 "2023-02-02T21:09:30Z")
Technically speaking, an organism does not need to be from somewhere else to be invasive - native species CAN be invasive. This is very rare, but it can happen. ---
**Author:** ![anon93074988](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7feea3/32.png) [@anon93074988](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/anon93074988)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 9:29pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/15 "2023-02-02T21:29:04Z")
I saw mention of that, but just put it down to the current fad of deconstructing absolutely every word in the dictionary. Do you have some examples of native invasives? I’d be interested to know how it actually works in practice. ---
**Author:** ![raymie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/raymie/32/12650_2.png) [@raymie](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/raymie)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2023, 9:40pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/16 "2023-02-02T21:40:32Z")
A good example is White-tailed Deer in eastern North America. Due to a lack of predators, they are eating away entire forests and extirpating entire plant species. They are a huge problem for both forest health and human populations (since car crashes can easily cause death). If they aren’t invasive, I don’t know what is honestly. ---
**Author:** ![jasonhernandez74](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/jasonhernandez74/32/33615_2.png) [@jasonhernandez74](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/jasonhernandez74)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 12:07am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/17 "2023-02-03T00:07:59Z")
> [@anon93074988](#): > > Do you have some examples of native invasives? It’s a contradiction in terms. It’s saying that something _invaded_ an area to which it is native. Cambridge dictionary defines “invade” as “to enter an area of activity in a forceful and noticeable way.” Meaning that _entering_ is essential to the definition of invading. A native species cannot be said to be entering. ---
**Author:** ![anon93074988](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7feea3/32.png) [@anon93074988](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/anon93074988)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 12:19am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/18 "2023-02-03T00:19:17Z")
That’s what I would have thought. It is an oxymoron, yet here we are. ---
**Author:** ![NoGenAI](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/nogenai/32/64043_2.png) [@NoGenAI](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/NoGenAI)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 12:44am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/19 "2023-02-03T00:44:44Z")
Armadillooooo Typically considered invasive here, but here from natural spreading into new areas where they “should not” be. Even the freezing winters dont seem to be stopping them from spreading northward as was originally thought. White tail deer I agree is a good example here. And then in comes chronic wasting disease. I would say they are forcibly & notably entering plenty of areas they shouldn’t be. But in any case i think thats why the phrase usually is not “native invasive” but “natives _acting_ invasively” which certainly happens when things are unbalanced. ---
**Author:** ![anon93074988](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7feea3/32.png) [@anon93074988](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/anon93074988)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 1:24am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051/20 "2023-02-03T01:24:18Z")
They sound like a pest for sure. Why are they considered invasive? What is the minimum distance or obstacle that needs to be traversed or overcome before some critter is considered alien? That would surely help to define what is considered properly invasive. [Next page](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/invasive-versus-native/39051.md?page=2)