# Specimen Counts **URL:** \ **Category:** General\ **Tags:** web, question, observations, photography\ **Created:** [January 17, 2025, 3:17pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644 "2025-01-17T15:17:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bommerer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/bommerer/32/54251_2.png) [@bommerer](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/bommerer)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 3:17pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/1 "2025-01-17T15:17:34Z")
Counting wild specimens. numbers of 10 to 25. šŸ“— With some species, such as small **terrestrial** **orchids** šŸŒ“, **large** **monkeys** šŸ¦or even larger **seashell** **gastropods** šŸŒ, it can sometimes happen quickly that you document and photograph almost each individual in a small population/group for your research or conservation project. Especially with very good images and **SLR** **equipment**. **Numbers** of individuals **are** also very **interesting**. Especially when the **individuals** within the population **differ** **greatly** **in** **appearance** , you may even want to **publish** them _ **as** _ _ **individual** _ **observations** ā€¦ (?) & for some itā€™s even irritating not to take a quick photo of the next specimen on your path as well. This can quickly result in _more_ _than_ **8** well images per species. Even with very, **very** **rare** **species** , **10** **individual** **sightings** can sometimes occur. I **donā€™t** **want** to **discuss** groups\populations of **more** **than** **30** **individuals** here. **But** how do we behave **with** **10** to **25**? However, publishing several often very different specimens of a species as individual observations within a field trip, an approximate time and a rough localization and making them available to iNat Users or even Gbif, seems to be **a** **great** **mistake** , because according to our guidelines we should **combine** **these** **observations** **into** **one** **single** **observation**! **Are** **up** to _ **10** _ SLR **observations** **of** **a** single **species** per day **still** **tolerated?** _Poll ([view on site](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/1))_ **What** **are** **your** **experiences** **and** **opinions** **on** **this** **topic** **of** **small** **numbers** **that** are **too** **big** for one observation? > **Service** > > happy researcher ---
**Author:** ![ShotShot](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/shotshot/32/60399_2.png) [@ShotShot](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/ShotShot)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 3:52pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/2 "2025-01-17T15:52:07Z")
I canā€™t find where the guidelines state that observations of different individuals should be combinedā€¦ I was under the impression it is the opposite, i.e. one obs (eventually with multiple pictures) per individual. ---
**Author:** ![cthawley](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/cthawley/32/1445_2.png) [@cthawley](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/cthawley)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 3:58pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/3 "2025-01-17T15:58:05Z")
Yes, I think the original proposition is incorrect about [iNatā€™s guidance](https://help.inaturalist.org/en/support/solutions/articles/151000169927-what-is-an-observation) on this. The default observation ā€œbehaviorā€ for iNat is that each individual organism should have itā€™s own observation. Observations with \>1 individual organism in multiple photos (ie, the same focal organism is not present in all photos) may be IDed to the most specific common taxon. So if all the individuals are the same species, then the observation can be IDed to that level. But this is less optimal. Lots of issues can result (how to annotate if multiple life stages or statuses are present? What if what the observer thinks is one species is actually multiple?). These issues are avoided by making each individual its own observation. How many individuals to upload from any given location/population is entirely up to the observer. Whether an SLR (or any other piece of equipment) is used doesnā€™t seem relevant. ---
**Author:** ![tcriley](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/tcriley/32/25468_2.png) [@tcriley](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/tcriley)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 4:30pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/4 "2025-01-17T16:30:43Z")
I usually do one observation for the population unless thereā€™s a few that stand out as different from the rest, like what @cthawley said with the different annotations, Iā€™ll separate males from females (such as with cardinals) and larvae from adults (such as with beetles), but Iā€™ll also sometimes upload additional observations for individuals with deformations. ---
**Author:** ![tiwane](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/tiwane/32/54612_2.png) [@tiwane](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/tiwane)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 5:40pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/5 "2025-01-17T17:40:05Z")
Please donā€™t combine into one observation. ---
**Author:** ![paul\_dennehy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/paul_dennehy/32/1319_2.png) [@paul\_dennehy](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/paul_dennehy)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 6:28pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/6 "2025-01-17T18:28:08Z")
Please do not lump together photos of different individuals as one observation, even if you believe them to be the same species. Aside from violating iNatā€™s guidelines on the definition of an ā€œobservationā€ (one observer interacting with one organism), it causes trouble in two very common scenarios: 1. One of the several photos added are in fact a _different_ species, so similar that the observer did not notice (Iā€™ve mistakenly done this several times- but by posting each individual as its own observation, identifiers have been able to easily correct the one I got wrong). I have to comment ā€œfirst photo is species A, but second photo is species Bā€ practically every day when I do insect IDs. 2. The individuals represent different sexes, ages, or forms, and annotators cannot annotate the observation because itā€™s not for one single organism. Even if the observer _thinks_ the organisms are all the same sex of the same species at the same life stage, mistakes are often made, and if the organisms are lumped together as one observation, thereā€™s no way for the community to correct the mistake without marking the whole observation as ā€œnot evidence of a single subjectā€, which sends it to the Casual pool. Even for something seemingly obvious like Cardinals, Iā€™ve seen people mistake immature males for females- if the immature males and females are lumped together, how do you annotate that observation? There is not any sort of ā€œlimitā€ to how many observations of a species a person makes in a day. iNat data is not meant to represent species abundance; if you see 40 orchids on a walk and really like them, go ahead and post them all. Iā€™ve done it: [https://tinyurl.com/yukh63mm](https://tinyurl.com/yukh63mm) Iā€™ve heard identifiers complain about large volumes of the same species from the same place, but I donā€™t see a problem with it. It takes about 5 seconds to mark the whole page of observations as reviewed and move on if one doesnā€™t wish to identify them, and it shows a great deal of positive interaction with nature on behalf of the observer. ---
**Author:** ![bommerer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/bommerer/32/54251_2.png) [@bommerer](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/bommerer)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 7:01pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/7 "2025-01-17T19:01:59Z")
Thanks for all the responses! šŸ™†šŸ½ā€ā™‚ļø since a noble curator kind of asked me to combine all my UW observations of the night dive of a species into one observation, I was rather curiousā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![DianaStuder](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/dianastuder/32/43358_2.png) [@DianaStuder](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/DianaStuder)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 8:16pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/8 "2025-01-17T20:16:50Z")
Did you upload them with your own ID? (Quick and easy to click Agree) Or leave them Unknown? ( a bit more work - and Mark as Reviewed, pushes the work on to the next identifier) I would still like to Annotate **each** photo. 1 has flowers 2 has fruit 4 flower buds 8 has coloured leaves Now we have to annotate the whole obs, and pick thru for any pictures which DO fit our request. Fruit? ---
**Author:** ![papernautilus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@papernautilus](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/papernautilus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 11:19pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/9 "2025-01-17T23:19:03Z")
> [@cthawley](#): > > each individual organism should have itā€™s own observation There are thousands of situations where this is simply not reasonable or desirable. Ignore everything in this photo except the individual in the center, facing left. [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/145854357](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/145854357) Repeat the observation ~25 times, using the same photo but singling out a different individual each time. ---
**Author:** ![Thunderhead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/thunderhead/32/62294_2.png) [@Thunderhead](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/Thunderhead)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 11:34pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/10 "2025-01-17T23:34:58Z")
Use that photo as second photo, crop in on a single bird for the first. You can add a note about flock size. Or you can nitpick the rules. ---
**Author:** ![ShotShot](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/shotshot/32/60399_2.png) [@ShotShot](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/ShotShot)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 11:36pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/11 "2025-01-17T23:36:13Z")
This is where other guidelines and some common sense step in, I suppose. Try and respect the observerā€™s initial ID, do not abuse the DQA ā€˜single subjectā€™, etc. ---
**Author:** ![papernautilus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@papernautilus](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/papernautilus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2025, 1:59pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/12 "2025-01-18T13:59:34Z")
> [@Thunderhead](#): > > Or you can nitpick the rules. It isnā€™t nitpicking to point out that there are organisms that live in groups, and which are best photographed that way. [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/146222073](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/146222073) ---
**Author:** ![bouteloua](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/bouteloua/32/1180_2.png) [@bouteloua](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/bouteloua)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2025, 2:34pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/13 "2025-01-18T14:34:18Z")
> [@papernautilus](#): > > > [@cthawley](#): > > > > each individual organism should have itā€™s own observation > > There are thousands of situations where this is simply not reasonable or desirable. > > Ignore everything in this photo except the individual in the center, facing left. > [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/145854357](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/145854357) Each organism, if you are taking separate photos of different individuals, which was the context of this topic. ---
**Author:** ![Thunderhead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/thunderhead/32/62294_2.png) [@Thunderhead](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/Thunderhead)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2025, 2:44pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/14 "2025-01-18T14:44:39Z")
I can say the gathered group in that photo could have had one organism separated out for an observation. With the group shot as a following photo. You just keep doing you. ---
**Author:** ![papernautilus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@papernautilus](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/papernautilus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2025, 2:52pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/15 "2025-01-18T14:52:33Z")
Hmm ā€¦ [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/258496023](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/258496023) ---
**Author:** ![Thunderhead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/thunderhead/32/62294_2.png) [@Thunderhead](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/Thunderhead)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2025, 3:35pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/16 "2025-01-18T15:35:52Z")
Thatā€™s right. I use my phone and could not get them separated. I posted it to the bird feeder project where who is there is the point. So when you come along to ID and donā€™t like it move on. > [@bouteloua](#): > > Each organism, if you are taking separate photos of different individuals, which was the context of this topic. ---
**Author:** ![jasonhernandez74](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/jasonhernandez74/32/33615_2.png) [@jasonhernandez74](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/jasonhernandez74)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2025, 9:01pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/17 "2025-01-18T21:01:43Z")
Guys, there are literally dozens of observation fields about this: [Observation Fields: ā€œNumberā€](https://www.inaturalist.org/observation_fields?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=number&commit=Search) ---
**Author:** ![bommerer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/bommerer/32/54251_2.png) [@bommerer](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/bommerer)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2025, 10:45pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/18 "2025-01-18T22:45:53Z")
> [@bommerer](#): > > Thanks for all the responses! šŸ™†šŸ½ā€ā™‚ļø > since a noble curator kind of asked me to combine all my UW observations of the night dive of a species into one observation, I was rather curiousā€¦ Okay. Happy to have read all your opinions. ---
**Author:** ![jbecky](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/jbecky/32/3019_2.png) [@jbecky](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/jbecky)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2025, 7:11am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/19 "2025-01-19T07:11:56Z")
Iā€™ve had the opposite experience: identifiers identify all sorts of species in my UW dive photos of ā€œone organismā€ and ask me to create a new observation for each! I do crop the photo when appropriate so itā€™s the same photograph, just a different crop, so CV isnā€™t diluted. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/inaturalist/original/2X/7/7831452cf7f0d653ff1ffd34176334b7ef1b6a17.png) [@system](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 7:12am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/specimen-counts/60644/20 "2025-03-20T07:12:16Z")
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