# Spent Flower Head Annotation **URL:** \ **Category:** General\ **Tags:** question\ **Created:** [February 22, 2025, 6:05pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010 "2025-02-22T18:05:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sarah1101](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/sarah1101/32/34339_2.png) [@sarah1101](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/sarah1101)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 6:05pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/1 "2025-02-22T18:05:41Z")
If an observation photo includes a dead flower head old enough that it would contain seeds, but does not clearly show any, do you annotate it as “Flowers,” “Fruit or Seeds,” or leave it unannotated? ---
**Author:** ![DianaStuder](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/dianastuder/32/43358_2.png) [@DianaStuder](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/DianaStuder)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 7:50pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/2 "2025-02-22T19:50:09Z")
I use Fruit ---
**Author:** ![natev](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/natev/32/29855_2.png) [@natev](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/natev)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 8:09pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/3 "2025-02-22T20:09:57Z")
Same. ---
**Author:** ![GothHobbit](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/gothhobbit/32/34548_2.png) [@GothHobbit](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/GothHobbit)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 8:39pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/4 "2025-02-22T20:39:02Z")
Same here. ---
**Author:** ![jhbratton](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/jhbratton/32/3718_2.png) [@jhbratton](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/jhbratton)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 10:17pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/5 "2025-02-22T22:17:33Z")
I wouldn’t jump to calling it fruit if it might not contain any. Not all flowers produce fruit. I’m mainly thinking of flowers that failed, but also male flowers rarely produce fruit. So if there isn’t a dead flower annotation, I’d leave it unannotated. ---
**Author:** ![bbk-htx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bbk-htx](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/bbk-htx)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 12:56am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/6 "2025-02-23T00:56:48Z")
> [@sarah1101](#): > > does not clearly show any Should be annotated “No flowers or fruit” ---
**Author:** ![mmmiller](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/mmmiller/32/7699_2.png) [@mmmiller](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/mmmiller)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 1:05am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/7 "2025-02-23T01:05:27Z")
in a related subject: Is there a name for those structures that hold seeds but remain on the dead plant even after the seeds have been dispersed? For example: ![original](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/inaturalist/original/3X/4/b/4b3fc15406f2fc963e623dfc32ac580588f70464.jpeg) There don’t appear to be any seeds left so I can’t annotate it as having seeds. But, for my own use, I’d like to keep track of the different kinds of seed pods/heads/whatever-they’re called. And I don’t know the proper way to tag them or add the word to the observation notes. I have tried to research this question but without any luck. ---
**Author:** ![DianaStuder](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/dianastuder/32/43358_2.png) [@DianaStuder](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/DianaStuder)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 6:58am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/8 "2025-02-23T06:58:33Z")
I would also call that fruit - it is at least the remnants of fruit. We have limited annotations, appropriate for non-scientists. At very least - this is evidence - that there was fruit last season. ---
**Author:** ![bbk-htx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bbk-htx](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/bbk-htx)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 3:58pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/9 "2025-02-23T15:58:52Z")
It is my understanding that the evidence is for what is at the time of the observation, not what was in the past or what may be in future. Technically any angiosperm is evidence of “flower or fruit” otherwise it wouldn’t exist. The annotation applies to that particular observation. [https://help.inaturalist.org/en/support/solutions/articles/151000191830-what-are-the-definitions-of-inaturalist-annotations-](https://help.inaturalist.org/en/support/solutions/articles/151000191830-what-are-the-definitions-of-inaturalist-annotations-) ## Flowers and Fruits (within Angiospermae) - **No flowers or fruits** : No flowers, fruits, or seeds (in whole or part) are visible - **Flower buds** : At least one closed flower bud - **Flowers** : At least one open flower - **Fruits or Seeds** : At least one fruit or seed ---
**Author:** ![bbk-htx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bbk-htx](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/bbk-htx)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 4:11pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/10 "2025-02-23T16:11:09Z")
## Observation Fields scroll down and to the right in the observation to find " Observation Fields" Observation fields are additional data fields that can be added to observations. There is already one called 'Seed Heads", but you can create your own if there is not one that suits your needs. ---
**Author:** ![Junell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ebca7d/32.png) [@Junell](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/Junell)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 5:23pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/11 "2025-02-23T17:23:26Z")
Personally, if I can’t clearly see any seeds, I usually just leave it unannotated. It’s better to be accurate than to guess, you know? ---
**Author:** ![mmmiller](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/mmmiller/32/7699_2.png) [@mmmiller](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/mmmiller)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 5:39pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/12 "2025-02-23T17:39:47Z")
But, is it a seed head? I mean, I’m asking the botanists in the room - is that what they are called? It’s what I call them but I don’t know if that would be the accurate ‘proper’ name for them? ---
**Author:** ![DianaStuder](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/dianastuder/32/43358_2.png) [@DianaStuder](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/DianaStuder)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 6:08pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/13 "2025-02-23T18:08:29Z")
What is the plant? Leonotis has flowers in a whorl like that. ---
**Author:** ![jasonhernandez74](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/jasonhernandez74/32/33615_2.png) [@jasonhernandez74](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/jasonhernandez74)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 9:36pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/14 "2025-02-23T21:36:07Z")
> [@mmmiller](#): > > But, for my own use, I’d like to keep track of the different kinds of seed pods/heads/whatever-they’re called. Thoss appear to be just the calyces. ---
**Author:** ![mmmiller](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/mmmiller/32/7699_2.png) [@mmmiller](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/mmmiller)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 1:07am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/15 "2025-02-24T01:07:10Z")
> [@DianaStuder](#): > > What is the plant? Common Motherwort (Leonurus cardiaca) [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/249843937](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/249843937) Other types of wintered over remains of seed heads I might see are Velvetleaf (Abutilon theophrasti) [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/190951310](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/190951310) Sweet Everlasting (Pseudognaphalium obtusifolium) [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/64064533](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/64064533) Blazing-Stars (Genus Liatris) - ID not confirmed on this one [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/249833110](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/249833110) Cudweeds, Everlastings, and Pussytoes (Subtribe Gnaphaliinae) [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/138462641](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/138462641) * * * edited to add in some attempt to be clearer: I’m not looking for the annotation. I’m not trying to fit iNat to my needs. I’m just looking for the term I might use in every day life that would appropriate. * * * These all seem to be the structures that get created as the plant goes from flower to seed. But the seeds have (it appears to me) been dispersed. (if you find one or two seeds in there, pretend you didn’t for the purpose of this discussion). And they all look quite different. They wouldn’t qualify for the ‘fruit or seeds’ annotation which if fine for me. I know I can make a tag for anything I want and I can make a note listing any words I want. But to reiterate and be clear about what I’m asking. What would be the proper name for these kinds of structures that no longer contain seeds? Is there, perhaps, no proper name? Or would it differ from plant to plant? I just want to keep track of these phase of the plant’s life because, here in MN, I’m way more likely to see something like these than I am a flower! And for many months, these will be the only thing I’ll see besides bare stems and twigs. I want to look at a structure like that and say ‘oh… that’s a Blazing Star’ and to facilitate that, I want to know how to use my own tag that is actually an accurate label. Should one exist. Does ‘seed head’ work for all (most) of these kinds of structures? Would ‘empty seed head’ be better? Another word or phrase used by those in the field? ---
**Author:** ![DianaStuder](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/dianastuder/32/43358_2.png) [@DianaStuder](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/DianaStuder)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 7:46am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/16 "2025-02-24T07:46:58Z")
@annkatrinrose is a botanist who could answer you. She has a thread for ‘fruit’ names ---
**Author:** ![ljazz](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/ljazz/32/22872_2.png) [@ljazz](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/ljazz)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 7:52am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/17 "2025-02-24T07:52:55Z")
there is no really good annotation for what you are talking about. Compared to what is available for animals, there is almost none really available except phenology. In general, the annotation for plants at best missing and at worst, misleading and wrong (like sex, which is nonsensical in plants if they are monoecious or synoecious, which for plants, should be the first question). There is a forum topic where you can offer suggestions (on sex for plants ,but also on evidence of presence and age, so it would be more like that fro animals), and I tried making some, but there has been resistance even from other prolific IDers, so I guess the community does not wish for things to change. ---
**Author:** ![DianaStuder](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/dianastuder/32/43358_2.png) [@DianaStuder](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/DianaStuder)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 8:02am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/18 "2025-02-24T08:02:12Z")
? the community has opinions which range from working scientists with precise definitions, to citizen scientists who can Flower or Fruit or not. iNat needs to try and reach across that range of knowledge. The annotation thread is LONG. I want pine ‘fruit’ - that also has NO annotation. ---
**Author:** ![vladimir\_fuka](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/vladimir_fuka/32/20618_2.png) [@vladimir\_fuka](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/vladimir_fuka)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 10:26am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/19 "2025-02-24T10:26:07Z")
I think these are calyces on a Lamiaceae member plant. The corollas are gone. Not sure if there are any fruits. It is true that calyces can remain even on “fruits” as in Rosaceae. ---
**Author:** ![vladimir\_fuka](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/vladimir_fuka/32/20618_2.png) [@vladimir\_fuka](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/vladimir_fuka)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 12:18pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010/20 "2025-02-24T12:18:42Z")
These annotated photographs show well which is which. [https://www.life.illinois.edu/help/digitalflowers/picts/Lamiaceae/06-Teucrium%20gynoecium.jpg](https://www.life.illinois.edu/help/digitalflowers/picts/Lamiaceae/06-Teucrium%20gynoecium.jpg) [https://www.life.illinois.edu/help/digitalflowers/picts/Lamiaceae/11-Physostegia%20fruits.jpg](https://www.life.illinois.edu/help/digitalflowers/picts/Lamiaceae/11-Physostegia%20fruits.jpg) The schizocarps (if present), with the nutlets, are often hidden (depending on the species) inside the persistent calyces. [Next page](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/spent-flower-head-annotation/62010.md?page=2)