I understand that, I’m autistic myself and make snappy comments stating simple facts like “this species isn’t found here”, sorry I can’t think of any good examples right now. I suppose my ASD could be a reason I find things ruder than they are as I struggle with understanding people’s tones, never mind online but I tend to not realise if people are rude or being mean rather than the other way round - I tend to get the same few people being rude towards me, I wont name them as they might not mean anything by it, I dont want to upset them. They tend to say things like “are you messing around? This clearly isn’t the correct ID” - which to me seems rude, perhaps not others.
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Im autistic so tend to be pretty direct with my statements too, thats not what I meant by rude. It’s when people add unnecessary comments assuming they know why you ID’d something or even jusr saying your observation is useless because of the poor picture quality. I’ve deleted a few observations for this reason.
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I’ve used emojis myself in the past to make me blunt comments seem less… well blunt, but then some people dont like that and tell you its ‘unprofessional’ or that they ‘wont take childish comments seriously’ - all because I added a ‘
’
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I do a fair bit of moderation and I do see a lot of comments that come across as rude, whether intended or not. My experience with these is that a lot of them fall into the category of “entitled requests”, where, for example, a prolific identifier says something along the lines of “how do you expect me to ID an observation with photos on the wrong order?”, or “whatever made you think this genus can be identified down to species from a mere photo?”, when the user just signed up and has 4 observations.
Other times the comments seem based on the assumption that new users of iNat know or understand the requirements for identifying some obscure group of organisms, for example, along the lines of “this observation of a millipede does not show the second segment of the posterior-most left leg, required for id to species. It is therefore useless and should be deleted”. Similarly to this last one, I also see plenty of comments from identifiers who misunderstood the purpose of iNat: if every data piece they need for their own research is not present, they tell the observer bluntly that they are required to add it, which is not actually correct. Just use the DQA and move on. Don’t be demanding and keep in mind that users don’t work for you.
I think the advice to assume people mean well should be taken to heart by those leaving these kinds of comments on new users’ observations.
All this said, I don’t think the problem is getting worse over time, there are just more users.
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I notice an increasing lack of respect. I did not get verbally attacked yet
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Just looked at a fig observation with this kind of comment. The original observer is one of the most prolific observers in my area and his IDs are pretty reliable as a whole. The fig concerned is not common but if anyone is going to find one it is this observer. It got me looking at ALA and from my uneducated eye this fig could be either of the species mentioned. At least if I see a fig I now know to take several leaf pics hopefully showing a clear margin. Learned something!
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And some threads on the Forums suggest that some users who are scientists resent that.
The only time I have a problem with that is when X species did occur in Y place until a taxonomic revision happened that I didn’t know about. The above comment – that not everyone is a scientist – means that not everyone stays abreast of the latest cladistic analyses.
In the scenario I described, it does not feel any more constructive. X used to be a Holarctic genus/species.
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This is more of the nuero thread type of statement but, yes when people say “Just call them” No its fine, waiting a few days for an email reply is easier. I much prefer to digest what is in front of me, and formulate an approriate response.
But over the years I have become a lot more careful on if I correct incorrect statements people may say. Aka if its harmless…then let it go. But I am sure going to over think it for the rest of the day.
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I don’t see this problem with the vertebrate records I submit or ID, or only rarely. And the plant people seem pretty okay. But I get the impression that rudeness might be a bigger issue with invertebrate records. Maybe because photos are more often inadequate to make a species ID, which is frustrating to observer and IDer alike. And the CV might more often lead the observer astray.
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I haven’t seen any increase in rudeness on iNat. There are always a few people here and there who are, but on iNat that’s generally pretty uncommon.
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i was gonna say ‘i haven’t seen an increase in rudeness but i stick to bugs and don’t see what goes on for the vertebrates!’
i mostly look at under-IDed observations though, so maybe after i change ‘pterygota’ to ‘staphylinidae’ the rude folks come in!
or i might come off as rude when i make a terse comment like ‘[genus] does not occur on continent’ or ‘head markings do not match [genus],’ that’s unfortunate.
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Ha!, well, as seems likely, individual experiences can vary. It’s hard to say without actual examples how much actual rudeness is out there on iNat and where it might be focused versus how much is interpretation by the recipient. Maybe my terse comments on some records are seen as rude but I’d never know if the observer doesn’t respond.
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I work in a helping profession in Massachusetts, US, and in real life, I’m seeing a lot of people rubbed raw by national and international events. This does seem to translate into more acts of rudeness in real life. It would be logical for this same dynamic to exist on iNat.
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Idk, perhaps my expectations for interpersonal contact are low (or I have the right kind of autism for this particular environment), but if anything – I feel like iNat is actually much more friendly and pleasant compared to the rest of the internet.
Even though people are busy with their own lives and are doing all this for free, they will sometimes take time out of their day not just to ID my stuff, but also to interact with me and explain when I do something wrong; and if I ask follow up questions – I am very likely to get a detailed answer I can use to research the topic further. What else could a girl want?
The only technically unpleasant iNat interaction I can recall was with a troll user who was posting photos of people he didn’t like and IDing them as various primates. I IDd his observations as Homo Sapiens. He called me stupid, submitted an observation of my avatar photo and IDd me as a snub nosed monkey in revenge. That was clearly not a fair use of the platform, so I flagged it and he was pretty much immediately suspended, but to be honest that was super funny more than anything else.
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I can’t comment on the cases you’re talking about because I don’t know, but if you’re seeing them on other people’s observations, sometimes such comments come from having developed a relationship with someone - you know it’s okay to joke and tease, and if someone posts a particularly obvious misclick or wrong ID you might respond in a way you never normally would. But if others are looking from outside, it may come across as rude even if the people involved wouldn’t see it that way at all.
(Okay, maybe that’s just me, I don’t know - but I don’t think so. Maybe it’s more common in Aussie culture than in others? Either way, a different possible perspective on ‘rudeness’.)
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There are a couple of people with whom I just can’t really get along with; we share different opinions and have different mindsets that clash. Being autistic as well, I can agree that some things come off ruder to me than they may be found by others. Despite this, I can say that there are enough people with I really enjoy the company of, so I try to ignore the comments that frustrate or annoy me.
And @ursaw is right–iNat seems to be a much better place than most of the other internet platforms, though I tend to stick away from anything else.
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The original question by @danzzziswild mentions that things have gotten worse.
I want to point out that this may not be the case. When you started, things may have looked great. Now, with more familiarity, you may be experiencing rosy retrospection, a known human bias. Human memory isn’t great.
I haven’t noticed people getting ruder.
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It’s interesting, I had a similar experience. Most Australians are lovely people, and I come from South Australia, and more specifically, form a small town in the country, and everyone smiles and waves at each other, stops to say hello, interacting like we’ve known each other for years when we just met. then when I went on a holiday to Canberra with my family at the end of last year, no one smiled, or said thank you, no one acknowledged a thank you. I’m sure there are lovely people in Canberra, we did meet a few awesome people that were so lovely to us, but it was a very large cultural shock! Another cultural shock was there was no bakeries or good cafés! the food and drink culture there is so different than here in SA, where we have influence from many countries!
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If this is not general behavior, but associated with a particular user or users, bringing it up with that person is probably the most constructive course of action – e.g., let them know that you found the remark hurtful. If you don’t feel comfortable doing so or if you feel that this is unlikely to have any effect, you can flag the comment (and in the flag, perhaps note that it is part of a pattern of repeat behavior).
You do not need to delete observations for this reason, though I understand why you might wish to do so (not wanting that negativity connected with your observation). Again, such comments can be flagged and potentially hidden, or someone else may come along and make a kinder assessment of the photo and whether a specific ID is feasible (this is often not dependent on photo quality) or provide suggestions about how to get better photos of that particular sort of organism in the future. The negative remark does not have to be the last word on an observation.
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6 posts were split to a new topic: Side conversation