# Why placeholder, what has happend? **URL:** \ **Category:** General\ **Created:** [August 31, 2023, 8:29am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766 "2023-08-31T08:29:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ahospers](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/ahospers/32/1483_2.png) [@ahospers](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/ahospers)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2023, 8:29am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/1 "2023-08-31T08:29:34Z")
I have many Weeet jji wat hier gebeurt is [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/15586511](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/15586511) and years ago nothing was wrong with this, a normal observation and without UNKKNOWN and a without PLACEHOLDER There could be a few thousnad [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/15586513](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/15586513) ---
**Author:** ![DianaStuder](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/dianastuder/32/43358_2.png) [@DianaStuder](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/DianaStuder)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2023, 10:40am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/2 "2023-08-31T10:40:18Z")
Should this link have a photo? [https://observation.org/observation/134040072/](https://observation.org/observation/134040072/) Is that where the problem lies? ---
**Author:** ![paul\_luap](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/paul_luap/32/17343_2.png) [@paul\_luap](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/paul_luap)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2023, 10:53am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/3 "2023-08-31T10:53:13Z")
maybe [ahospers](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/ahospers) means that the observations had a species ID - were linked to a species entry before? maybe something changed with the species? [https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/953476-Brachanthemum-kirghisorum](https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/953476-Brachanthemum-kirghisorum) ---
**Author:** ![ahospers](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/ahospers/32/1483_2.png) [@ahospers](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/ahospers)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2023, 3:04pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/4 "2023-08-31T15:04:46Z")
> [@paul\_luap](#): > > hat the observations had a species ID - were linked to a species entry before? > > maybe something changed w In Belarus i got several (hunderds?) of remarks but it used not to be a problem and last month i only saw it for observations without photos, which is normal for this kind of observations ( [https://observation.org/observation](https://observation.org/observation/134040072/)) As far as i know there were normal species in 2018-2021) ---
**Author:** ![ahospers](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/ahospers/32/1483_2.png) [@ahospers](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/ahospers)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2023, 3:06pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/5 "2023-08-31T15:06:19Z")
This was this morning, but it used to have, years ago(2018-2020(2021)), no problem [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?nelat=43.26535693037999&nelng=80.22815137065733&place\_id=any&swlat=39.18097259635649&swlng=69.26406016855596&user\_id=ahospers&verifiable=any](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?nelat=43.26535693037999&nelng=80.22815137065733&place_id=any&swlat=39.18097259635649&swlng=69.26406016855596&user_id=ahospers&verifiable=any) ---
**Author:** ![ahospers](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/ahospers/32/1483_2.png) [@ahospers](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/ahospers)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/6 "2023-08-31T15:22:36Z")
In Belarus there also should be serveral, but they were harder to find than expected [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/15658167](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/15658167) ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/inaturalist/original/3X/2/5/25b3f54ba051e391f88552f9f8084f3055225f9b.png) ---
**Author:** ![optilete](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/optilete/32/1908_2.png) [@optilete](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/optilete)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/7 "2023-08-31T18:14:09Z")
Are you missing a photo, are you refering to the placeholder? I have something comparable, but that had a second id and the photo was missing, probably disappeared. This could also be an incompleet upload of the record by an app. ---
**Author:** ![rupertclayton](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/rupertclayton/32/2745_2.png) [@rupertclayton](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/rupertclayton)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2023, 6:50pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/8 "2023-08-31T18:50:48Z")
@tiwane: Can iNat staff look at this? From what I can tell there seems to be a data issue where old observations by @ahospers that presumably had photos and existing IDs (plus links to [https://observation.org](https://observation.org) records) have now become Unknown, with no IDs and only placeholder text. ---
**Author:** ![cthawley](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/cthawley/32/1445_2.png) [@cthawley](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/cthawley)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2023, 7:14pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/9 "2023-08-31T19:14:04Z")
It’s unclear to me that the observations used to have photos. @ahospers can you confirm if part of the issue is that photos which were previously present are now missing or is the issue confined to whether the observations have an actual ID vs an ID in placeholder text. ---
**Author:** ![tiwane](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/tiwane/32/54612_2.png) [@tiwane](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/tiwane)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2023, 7:19pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/10 "2023-08-31T19:19:50Z")
I agree with @cthawley it’s not clear to me what the exact issue is - did the observations ever have actual IDs and/or actual photos on [observation.org](http://observation.org)? ---
**Author:** ![ahospers](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/ahospers/32/1483_2.png) [@ahospers](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/ahospers)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2023, 9:42pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/13 "2023-08-31T21:42:02Z")
No they were normal observations without photos and than changed into placeholder, certainly the ones in Kirgizie as i added them by hand and i do not think they ever had additonal IDs or addition photos. So photos from [observation.org](http://observation.org) have it and also photos i added by hand. for Kirgizie. Most are added automatically. I thought there were also many in Belarus a few month a go. the have the PLACEHOLDEr and UNKNOW status while at least many of them should have had the normal observatoin status, at least tthe ones fro Kirigzie, they are added by hand. ---
**Author:** ![ahospers](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/ahospers/32/1483_2.png) [@ahospers](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/ahospers)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2023, 9:44pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/14 "2023-08-31T21:44:02Z")
> [@rupertclayton](#): > > had photos and existing IDs (plus links to [https://observation.org](https://observation.org) records) have now beco No, it is very unlikly that they had photos but they have changed in to placeholder were some just have normal valid latin names (may by valid latin name → unvalid latin name → again valid latin name) ---
**Author:** ![tiwane](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/tiwane/32/54612_2.png) [@tiwane](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/tiwane)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2023, 10:36pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/15 "2023-08-31T22:36:07Z")
Looking at our backup from this past Saturday and doing some spot checking, these all have placeholders, so if something did happen it happened before then. Without knowing exactly when this might have happened, we can’t really look through any log files. ---
**Author:** ![ahospers](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/ahospers/32/1483_2.png) [@ahospers](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/ahospers)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 10:06am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/16 "2023-09-01T10:06:38Z")
Thank you for your effort, i only can tell you it probably happend after 2020 and i only saw it when people from Belarus made a lot of marks in spring 2023 on my observations. From the Kirgizie observations i am sure they were normal without placeholders from Belarus i was surprised that they were placeholders but not fully certain. I think all observations never had photos (and never had confirming ids) ---
**Author:** ![pisum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/91b2a8/32.png) [@pisum](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/pisum)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 11:08am UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/17 "2023-09-01T11:08:22Z")
i suspect these never had IDs to begin with. in this particular case, note that your placeholder shows “subsp.”, whereas i would expect the usual convention in the system to be “ssp.” here’s another observation showing placeholder for Corydalis saccata, which turns up no results if you search for it, suggesting it never existed in the system: [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/15586590](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/15586590). ---
**Author:** ![optilete](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/optilete/32/1908_2.png) [@optilete](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/optilete)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 3:36pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/18 "2023-09-01T15:36:03Z")
I think if they are added around 17 aug. 2018, you can imagine what happend around that time. ---
**Author:** ![ahospers](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/ahospers/32/1483_2.png) [@ahospers](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/ahospers)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2023, 5:26pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/19 "2023-09-01T17:26:41Z")
No, it think, but i do not know, they were normal observations about that time. 99% of my observations without photos will be about aug 2018 but this one is not [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/6968365](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/6968365) ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/inaturalist/original/3X/9/1/91f30cb699954087d568b81dea3fcf90ce08cf25.png) ---
**Author:** ![ahospers](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/ahospers/32/1483_2.png) [@ahospers](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/ahospers)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 6:50pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/20 "2023-09-13T18:50:50Z")
The first three i found did exist in the system. [\* Disabled Location Picker, which isn’t working yet in Android](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/searching-placeholders/3496/4) [How can if see the old name of https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/15515161 (google.com)](https://groups.google.com/g/inaturalist/c/fO3OcXjJH7g/m/2AiDpX7pCQAJ) ```auto You can also add .json to the end of the URL and look for the field "species_guess" https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/15515161.json "species_guess":"**Cepaea nemoralis forma P123(45)**" ``` spatie > I put up an observation and gave it an ID of “Quercus roburt” (deliberate mis-spelling to make it an obvious placeholder) > > .json shows the species\_guess as “Quercus roburt” > > I add an ID of Quercus robur (valid taxa ID) and it shows the binomial and vernacular. > > .json now shows species\_guess as “Pedunculate oak” (the vernacular for Quercus robur) > > I withdraw the Q. robur ID and the placeholder of “Pedunculate oak” is displayed. > > .json continues to show species\_guess as “Pedunculate oak” > > No matter what ID I apply, it has it’s vernacular replace the placeholder, and there appears to be no way to find the original placeholder > > No where in the .json is the “Quercus roburt” that I originally entered, so it is gone for good! his, it’s a fairly common misunderstanding that people don’t realize their placeholders are not actually “for real” with respect to the site’s database. They don’t see it as Unknown in their own observation list; they see the placeholder text. as I noticed a placeholder before. When I’ve withdrawn the ID, the placeholder returns, so it seems to be somewhere. I then copy and paste into my ID comments when I re-ID it aceholder text is still available somewhere. I was going through Unknowns and the instant I hit Save on a phylum level identification, I saw there was placeholder text (it’s tiny & light gray and my eyes aren’t so good), which was then gone. I withdrew my identification and the placeholder text came back. VERY GOOD !! [iNaturalist Observations Updates (jumear.github.io)](https://jumear.github.io/stirfry/iNat_observations_updates.html) [iNaturalist Community Forum](https://forum.inaturalist.org/badges/29/zeer-populaire-koppeling) [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?iconic\_taxa=unknown&user\_id=ahospers&place\_id=any](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?iconic_taxa=unknown&user_id=ahospers&place_id=any) ---
**Author:** ![ahospers](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.inaturalist.org/ahospers/32/1483_2.png) [@ahospers](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/ahospers)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 7:22pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/21 "2023-09-13T19:22:44Z")
Is there no way to find all my placeholders ? Till now i did not succeed and this one is not giving the results i want [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?iconic\_taxa=unknown&user\_id=ahospers&place\_id=any](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?iconic_taxa=unknown&user_id=ahospers&place_id=any) Further [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/15586513](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/15586513) does have a valid name “Allium leucosphaerum” [https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/6968365](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/6968365) “Kransgras” [Something from Kyrgyzstan - Ysyk-Köl on June 24, 2016 by Andre Hosper · iNaturalist](https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/15586604) Scutellaria przewalski or do i miss something ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/inaturalist/original/2X/7/7831452cf7f0d653ff1ffd34176334b7ef1b6a17.png) [@system](https://forum.inaturalist.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 7:22pm UTC](https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-placeholder-what-has-happend/44766/22 "2023-11-12T19:22:49Z")
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