CNC has a problem (and we need to fix it)

General
101

I’ll also point out that one of iNaturalist’s goals is to connect people with the biodiversity around them. If someone is new to learning about the natural world - and none of us were born with this knowledge - it’s quite reasonable to expect them to make observations of the most common and most easily photographed species in their area. And even those of us who have been paying attention to the natural world for decades are often thrilled every spring when we see the common native wildflowers blooming again, or hear the common birds singing their breeding songs, or see the turtles sunning themselves on a log for the first time since late last fall. Conservation is not just about finding every single species out there; it’s often about making sure the common species don’t become uncommon.

For the past week or two, I’ve been making hundreds, maybe thousands, of IDs of the very common species in my region. Sure, I get bored with that sometimes, but then I go take a hike somewhere and see those common species myself, which still thrills me. I’m really glad other people are also out there observing Red Trilliums and Eastern Skunk Cabbages and Northern Cardinals and Pink Earth Lichens and even the ubiquitous Mallards. When I run into other iNaturalist somewhere, they are always glad I make so many IDs of the common species. So, I keep making IDs, because I think it helps connect people with their natural world.

102

No one is forcing use to use iNat - if you feel your energy would be better directed in other endeavors, or you would be less bored, doing something else, you (and everyone) are of course free to do that.

As a credentialed scientist, I can definitively affirm that much data collection and processing, even for projects that one is really interested in overall, can be very boring. Projects using iNat data are often using thousands to millions of observations/data points. Creating/working with that much data is going to be boring.

To riff on Jerry Seinfeld, doing science requires the ability to be totally bored and remain standing/sitting and collecting data.

103

I think about taxon experts like @petezani and @bnormark, who sift through a lot of ore to find the gold nuggets . . .

“Orchids have been studied for over 250 years. I have been to the same small patch of forest more than 200 times. I have discovered 6 orchids new to science, and documented 57 new records for Mindoro and the Philippines. I walk past the same spot 20 times, and on the 21st time, I see a new plant. That means I was blind the first 20 times. That’s what it takes.” — An orchid guy that I met in the Philippines in 2011

104

Thanks for defending the non-expert identifiers! Speaking only for myself, I know my earliest attempts at IDing were far from perfect, but all done with good intentions. I have been learning a lot along the way—special thanks to the ID-a-thon!—and I suspect others do the same.

There is clearly a need for experts to get everything to species, but it seems to me that there is probably just as much need for beginners to start the process, and mid-level expertise to keep passing the baton along.

105

Exactly this. Obviously opinion can differ on what iNat’s primary purpose should be, but getting more people to learn and care about the natural world around them strikes me as perhaps the most impactful thing iNat (or any person/entity who already cares about nature) could do. That said, iNat also is a data project – the most extensive collection of observation recordings to ever exist.

From the About page: “iNaturalist’s mission is to connect people to nature and advance biodiversity science and conservation.” It’s worth noting that the former goal (of making more naturalists) is not always in perfect alignment with the latter (advancing science/conservation through data).

I personally find that CNC (and other aggressive outreach aimed at getting “normies” to make observations) leads to periodic influxes of low-quality observations flooding an already strained pool of identifiers. As someone who wants iNat to be the highest-quality source of data possible, this can be annoying. But when I reflect that all of those observers had to go out and at least notice an organism, and at least some of those observers might have experienced a new sense for the beauty and wonder of nature, it makes the pages of lazy/blurry observations clogging up the Identify page more tolerable.

106

lol Time to add some variety to the URLs you bookmark for IDs. I have about 20 I cycle thru. For now concentrating hard on CNC before the 10 May. 24K Insecta which you can filter further as you wish.

Also Ostrava (which is mostly dicots waiting in Unknowns) but. We. Have brought that down from 56K to 44K!! Team working together. You could look for small new CNC projects in your own country - which need all the support and encouragement they can get. ANY engagement from an other iNatter !

PS the Umbrella project … as I write … is just 5 sp off 72K.

When the CNC dust has settled back to my usual haunts - keeping up with the Cape Peninsula, and as much as one iNatter can do for Africa. Boring ? Always something new out of Africa.

PPS from the forum thread to Ostrava to … Tajikistan and a new mustard sp. Boring ?!

Start your iNat day with Geomodel Anomalies which took me from Tasmania to Tierra del Fuego today

107

Identifying and sorting through almost 3,000 unknowns in India has bought me to #18 on the identifiers leaderboard…

Still I cannot go through the remaining 6,500 unknowns in India alone

108

Well said!

As @massospora said, the latter should be the priority. In this digital age, it has become easier than ever to observe nature with affordable gear and helpful tools like iNat. Yet, I see very little people interested in nature when I’m out and about. Most I’ve seen are young kids, who unfortunately usually lose that fascination as they age.

109

Actually this is what makes iNat difficult for me:

1: I am one of those people who is “specialised” in a certain group. I know Auchennorhyncha, and mostly identify only them or nothing else.

2: I have an inclination to make leading ids (no agreements) of rare species or species that have not been identified on iNat before (see the list of species I’ve been the first to id Part 1, Part 2, Part 3 and Part 4.) The last two are giant lists. You can verify them if you are suspicious of me adding extra species. I am not the person who will add a thousand agreements for a leaderboard. If I want leaderboards, I make them myself.

3: Yes generally looking at African observations keeps on surprising me but the observations are not enough. I am a purely visual identifier. I do not use the identify page; I just sort through thousands of observations every day on the Explore page and identify what I think is rare/new to iNat, relying only on the looks of observations to decide which are possible to id. I am so used to it. I can spot something off so easily.

In the end I and you are totally different types of identifiers. I usually never take a look at unknowns.

Also I need to know the meaning of Geoscore…

PS: Looking at observations here did kinda entertain me. Still not enough room for me to add to my list. I have a target - to make the total of all lists combined more than 1000 by September 29th. That would be one year.

110

Geo score is used to sort observations by their distance to the nearest observation of the same taxon. For example, if someone observes a Western Cattle-Egret in China, it will show higher up on the geoscore rankings. I use this to identify possible mistakes in bird ID (like eastern/western cattle egrets, incorrect observations of hummingbirds, etc.).

One downside is that the geoscore counts verifiable observations, not research grade ones. So, if a person uploads just two observations of a western cattle-egret, it wouldn’t show up.

111

yet you’re the one citing boredom. try changing your routine.

or there’s plenty of under-IDed auchenorrynchans in South America. the identify tab is useful since it’ll only show observations that need IDs, rather than page after page of RG obs of common species

112

This is a very long thread that meanders a bit, but if I understand correctly, @aaravmishra your suggestion is that iNaturalist should encourage people to travel to observe, but not to find all new to them species in those places, only to find the rare species, and you will identify these, but your preference is to to be the Leading ID, because you’re a little bored.

If I have understood, and I say this with kindness: I think perhaps you are feeling extremely restless. Maybe you just need to find a new way, hopefully at iNaturalist, to find your thrill.

@DianaStuder has posted before about how satisfying she finds it to be part of an Identification that takes a long time to determine. Those are often due to rarity / obscurity. Perhaps she might share one or two?

There have also been some noteworthy Identifications highlighted, I think? (Are there Archives somewhere of those highlights?) Perhaps we can show you some of those and you might see if detective identifier feels like a role you might like.

Or just by looking through the Archives of Observations of the Week, etc, you might see an area of taxonomy that piques your interest, who knows. I often stumble across species that capture me here in the forums, too. (Did you see tiwane’s sand food? They kind of blew my mind when I read more about them.)

Your intellect and energy (a gift of youth) are tremendous assets, and this is just a starting idea, please do not be discouraged.

I am sorry you feel restless; it is not a pleasant feeling.

113

a sea anemone beached in the desert. How fascinating that is.

and then you are one of the taxon specialists I rely on to take what I rescue from Unknown and broad IDs. We need both sorts of identifiers.

114

I thought a lot before writing this but anyways…

Yes; I am very restless. I always feel irritated that every time I pick up the forum, and make a topic, the mods want to shut me up. I know that I have not done something against the guidelines, in a majority of instances. Once I put a feature request specially mentioning one person, but that was rejected anyways.

I am one who always wants to see something new. I generally think that when I will have a chance, when I grow up, I want to travel to find hoppers. Big mission.

I think is hold have noted that I do not know cicadas. Auchenorrhyncha except cicadas.

115

we’ve given you multiple and clear explanations for why your Feature Requests were not posted.

you’re not the only one facing the review process, every user who submits to that category is expected to follow the guidelines. Less than half of new Feature Request threads are eligible for posting, most often due to (1) failure to fill out the template, (2) a duplicate request, or (3) a request already publicly rejected by Staff.

there are a lot of young and eager naturalists like you who struggle a little with the etiquitte of the iNat forum. I promise, I do everything I can to stay professional and fair.

in any case, if you want to respectfully challenge moderators’ behaviour, you should turn to iNaturalist Help or maybe to Forum Feedback depending on the nature of the issue.

116

I understand your frustration, but it is against the guidelines to point fingers at someone if the topic was referring to the person in an unfavourable instance. :)

Anyways, I think we should keep the forum on topic (something I’m sure I fail to do many times myself).

117

You are not alone. There is a Forum thread, one of my favorites, called What is your Favorite Lifer from this week? for this very reason. Most weeks I have one and many weeks more than one, but not from travelling, because this is not what I do right now. Instead, I look to all the things my eye might normally glaze over, the generally overlooked. If I am still enough, I notice flashes of color or texture that often are species that previously had blended in. Sometimes they are new-to-me species, just, you know, going camo. Because of where I live (not US), these are often iNat rare.

I started doing this when I was home during the pandemic. In this country, in our state at least, we were restricted to home except for very specific, limited reasons. My garden was extremely small but I found sitting still in it at sunrise and sunset helpful. And I had a wonderful, very common plant, Hamelia patens, aka Firebush, that was like a whole ecosystem unto itself. I could sit and watch birds and bees and butterflies and lizards and beetles and ants and so many others visit it, while the plant itself changed with blooms, and tubes and berries and new leaves, etc. It was better than television! I left it behind when we moved to a new house and I miss it immensely.

My suggestion is to read some of the longer, share-ier threads (I have linked two already) and see what piques your interest within them. It may feel like you have to travel to see new things, but I promise you, you do not. Nor do you need to be somewhere remote to see “rare” things. There is a fellow here on iNaturalist, John Ascher, just incredibly knowledgeable about bees and has been quite generous with his knowledge to me, and he discovered a new bee species in the middle of New York City of all places.

From that article:

Finding new species in the city is unusual, but it is more common with small insects than, say, vertebrates like birds or mammals. A new species of centipede called Nannarrup hoffmani was found in Central Park in 2002, and a cockroach thought to be new to science was found by two high school students in an apartment on the West Side in 2009.

I adore the idea of speces living just under our noses, like secret worlds, in the same way I liked watching the world within my Hamelia patens. I think that is the beauty of CNC, that it maybe opens that window a little bit, offers a peek.

So, too, the Needs ID and Unknown piles may have treasures in them. If the photos are sharp enough and have just the right info, your eye is good and something happens to jog your sharp mind to remind you of something you have seen or read, you might put the whole thing together, who knows.

I cannot speak to moderation decisions, but I am sorry for your restlessness. I think iNaturalist is like an iceberg, in that I keep discovering more to it or a different way to approach it. I am hopeful you will experience this too and that will help you feel more at ease.

Be well. I hope at least some of this might be useful to you.

118

For me that thread is not much. I use a camera and have an infinite editing backlog, so each weeks finds aren’t posted very soon. lol

119

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/322939816

This remains the Mystery of 2025 and now the Mystery of 2026 - hoping to find more of them in the new season, and then an answer.

120

Nobody is going to stickle about dates nor would anyone blink twice if you shared a “recent lifer” rather than one from that week.

For goodness sake, do try to read the rest of the response. I went long, I know, lol as you would say. (Here we call this “como chachalaca” for all the bird lovers.)