When I’m new to an organization forum or sharing site, especially a large one, I read other comments for some time before posting. Gives you a better feel for appropriate procedures, language and culture.
There are many different paths to a goal, and many here (though not everyone) are participating because of a love of the natural world. Our experience won’t be 100% cos-- I certainly hope not, because I’m not expecting 0% Kris.
I think rereading the mission statement and adopting an attitude of correcting procedures undermining it is helpful. Curators do an extensive, detailed, thankless job; but let me thank them anyway. And before posting, we all should think: is this in line with procedures I said I’d honor? Is it beneficial, or self-seeking, or trash?
This site deals with so many countries, languages, forms of life, electronic communications-- maybe we need to make the signup stronger, insist you really did read how it works, and that you’re okay with it. Trying to change a policy almost immediately from your initial post should be saying something to you.
And this sort of thing certainly isn’t limited to iNat (as we all probably know all too well). All internet forums are plagued by this disease. Just as one other example, discussions over at [another website that focuses on bugs] have often included the three themes that you list here. So much so that I’ve never returned to that forum.
I am sorry that your experience so far has not been great. iNat - both the forum and the site - can sometimes be a fractious place. To be expected on a site where basic things like species and subspecies are not always settled. As well, there is a huge mix of expertise. I have been put off identifying some groups by the attitude of one person. But I have found most folks to be supportive. I’ve only had one post on this forum removed, but when I changed some wording, it was reinstated.
Please try to keep in mind that the “they” have irons in many fires and as humans, can make mistakes. As well, many folks (like me) are not paid.
I found iNat hard to navigate when I first joined, and still have a lot to learn about how the program works. But I can assure you that the moderators of this forum, and the folks who run the iNat site are not nasty, or out to get anyone. I have found that they welcome feedback.
I’m not diminishing your experience, just offering another perspective.
This is true. That’s why I don’t post on forums much.
I was banned from the Technodrome forum (Ninja Turtles) of all places, because they thought I was a plant from Nickelodeon or something just because I disagreed with the plot of an episode or something. I’m unsure. It was something so ridiculous I can’t even remember it. I do remember they called me a plant though, and I didn’t know what that meant so I had to google it.
“Shaming who are new” is definitely not what a person will encounter on this forum from the majority of people, you can see how similar questions are getting nice replies over and over (personally I don’t have that patience as I was learned to look up answers by myself, not questioning every problem to other people), so I’m surprised now to read that it appears in summary.
I personally had more my own problems with people thanking everyone but me for helping them, that really makes me think if I’m gonna answer anyone’s post again, spending own time just to have the second person getting oda and me getting zero.
I’m sorry about the lack of appreciation you’ve experienced. We all need to know our contributions are valued. That’s why I treasure those who take the time to say thank you. I’m especially touched by those who don’t even speak English who take the extra effort to find a way communicate with me.
Thank you for the reminder.
Perhaps the posts which are flagged by bots could have a note telling the person that it was flagged by a bot, so that they wouldn’t feel personally “attacked.” I’m thinking here of the messages on reddit which say “…this was done by a bot.” because it’s helpful to know, especially for those unfamiliar with the site/forum.
@jameson_nagle Melodi_96 asked you which particular thread you experienced the problem, and I don’t see where you provided it. Can the rest of us see/read this interaction(s)?
I was not aware there is a iNat Discord (although I don’t use Discord), but conflating the two seems unfair…they are completely separate.
The mods are accountable, they are hired and they are paid. AFAIK some mods are unpaid volunteers, but they are still held to account, are they not? As someone else mentioned, you can message them directly, and I’ve had people be responsive to any questions or issues.
I don’t spend all my time on here, but I’ve never seen anyone denigrate another based on their degree, school it came from, or lack of a degree. If we could see this for ourselves it would be helpful. That sounds very mean, unwelcoming, and counter-productive to be sure.
I know that from experience in other forums, as someone else mentioned it’s usually a good idea to read a lot before posting at all. Specifically, this person made three quick posts which all did not get the response he or she(%) was hoping for, and was akin to getting your hopes up for something big only to have them dashed. I know when I come up with a feature request, I think “WOW!” and that I’ve changed the game but then they get little or no response, and I realize maybe I had built some of that up in my head.
Same thing with a bug request, sometimes it is a genuine bug, sometimes it is the device, operating system, browser, etc. that is interfering with iNat and causing the bug.
I’m sorry anyone has been made to feel unwelcome/unwanted/etc, but I would ask that you not take your bad experiences from other unrelated forums and use that to color your view of iNat. Yes, any feeling you have is legitimate, but realize that feelings are also created by the lens we view the world through. If we are approaching the forum with “oh great, a bunch of smart asses in an established clique here to rip me apart” vs “oh great, a place to “speak” with like-minded folks whose values may align with mine and we may be able to learn from each other” the outcome will be very different. Everyone has been made to feel unwanted, unimportant, etc. in various forms in various places. For some people, they will never come back. Others will attempt to learn to fit in with the existing framework. Others will see it as a challenge, and not allow anyone else to discourage them in any way. Most people fall somewhere along the spectrum, not at one end or the other, and each forum/place is differently welcoming to different folks. Personally, I would say if it’s a little bit painful (but not extremely) there’s usually something to be learned from and could be a benefit to you. But of course that’s up to you and each person has a different threshold for social stresses. Some things are so toxic, it is best to cut ties completely, and looks like that is the route the OP has gone. There’s no right answer, but s/he may be limiting themselves by reacting so hastily. Sometimes it’s best to cool off, go away from something for a few days, and then come back and see how you feel about it. Often times that is enough to gain a fresh perspective on the issue, or lack thereof. But of course interacting on the forum is not required or necessary to take full use of the iNat app/website. I used the app/site for some time not realizing the discussion groups (yahoo or google, forget which) existed…I did okay.
Bottom line, we want as many people contributing to this work as possible, and if you feel that is not the case, please let everyone know so we can rectify it. In this case the person did make a post to let everyone know, but quickly left afterwards, so it seems like s/he had their mind made up.
(%) I am putting the gender as unspecified, I did not check this person’s profile before writing my post, so I don’t mean this as a disrespect, but rather I’m responding to the person as a screen name and not a gendered being. I believe it is a he from what I’ve read but I don’t want to assume.
Just to be clear the only hired and paid staff working on either the site or forum are iNat employees. I don’t know if by default all iNat employees are set as moderators on the forum, but realistically only 1 does moderation here.
All the other moderators are volunteers.
CmCheatle is correct, none of the mods are hired or paid. Yes we are accountable for our actions and can be removed from mod status or even banned, though so far that hasn’t happened as far as I know… any forum mod who left did so because they chose to (i am not sure if anyone has but sometimes people get too busy). Nor are any of the curators on the main site paid. iNat curators are also accountable and must follow the terms of service, community guidelines, etc. If you encounter a mod or curator (or anyone else on iNat) behaving in a way you think they shouldn’t, you can email help@inaturalist.org .
As for Discord, it’s a chat (and sometimes voice) platform. I believe it originally came about for people to talk while gaming. I am aware of at least 3 Discord forums related to iNat, none of which are run, managed, or moderated by iNat staff. You may encounter a forum mod or iNat curator on there, but just as another participant.
Yes, Discord is mostly for online games, but it’s cool to know iNat is there too, but it would be hard to use both forum and Discord, plus it’s interesting what information we miss from there and they might miss from the forum.
Thank you to everyone who helpfully chimed in. I’m going to close this thread as all of the initial concerns have been addressed.
As a final point of clarification, you can see the list of the moderators who kindly volunteer their time on the forum About page, in addition to the iNaturalist staff with forum admin privileges. Here is the complete list of iNaturalist staff.