I personally find that any and all forms of social media aren’t good for my mental health. There are lots of articles written about it. There’s something about the short, textual, asynchronous dialogue that make it prone to misunderstanding one another–and I’ve been on both ends of the misunderstanding.
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I think this is a great perspective. I’ll also note that it’s totally fair to politely ask an IDer why they disagreed - most are happy to explain if they know someone actually cares! Though some may be grumpy and negative as well (in my experience they are the minority).
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AlanM, I hope you make a complete recovery soon and we see you back on iNat.
I find that most people who ID my obs are polite and helpful, and the majority will provide reasons for contesting/changing your original ID. However I did have a similar experience to the ones you described a year or so back with an iNatter who I presume shared my interest in one of the range of organisms that I frequently post. This person seemed to frequently change IDs for my posts without giving any explanation. Sometimes they would simply take it to a higher level, e.g. “vascular plants”. Other times they would suggest a different species, again without an explanation. Some of these corrections may have been valid, but others I am sure were very dubious. When I looked at this user’s profile and searched their “identifications” list, I noticed that this pattern of behaviour was applied to other iNatters on a diverse range of organism types. I made a decision that the next time this happened, and I was fairly confident of my initial ID, i would make the following comment;
“I would appreciate if someone could review the ID supplied by xxxxxx. I am fairly sure that my original observations is correct in the absence of further evidence”.
Fortunately that user hasn’t provided anymore IDs for me so I have not needed to use this strategy. Best of luck for the future.
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Mostly, I just want to say I’m glad you had that success in dealing with depression. It’s a place many of us have experienced. And, you are doing well to analyze your experiences for how they support staying healthy.
Even if you decide to pull back from iNat, I think you did not say you would be pulling back from observing nature; and I was relieved to note that. Observing nature is one of the things we can do to support our mental health
A search for “nature and mental health” turns up many fine articles supporting the nature and mental health connection; here is just one:
https://www.apa.org/monitor/2020/04/nurtured-nature
The negative-seeming comments or attitudes I’ve encountered on iNat are far outweighed by the positive. That doesn’t mean they did not feel bad, especially at the time. So, I try to stay tuned to the more genial and interesting interactions on iNat
For me, INaturalist, even with the occasional twitch, helps me connect with nature. and has helped me become aware of many more aspects of nature and environment. This truly contributes to my interest in getting out there to experience it
Getting out in nature is one of my coping strategies when I’m feeling low
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You didn’t specify the situations which upset you so maybe my experiences are irrelevant to yours but as more of an identifier than observer, I think that sometimes our well-meant actions are received bad. Being corrected may be unpleasant experience even if someone is gentle, and also a communicate meant kind can be sometimes seen as unpleasant by the receiver. I recently conflicted with an observer to whose identifications I was not convinced, even though I particularly wanted to be nice to them (it was a very active observer in my area so I didn’t simply IDed and went further). I wanted to discuss the identification instead of simply reverting to the higher taxon, so that the observer can convince me to their ID. It was received very negatively, as if I offended them disputing their ID skills, which quite upsetted me.
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I’m sorry you’ve had bad experiences. I, too, suffer from persistent depression, and I know how much interactions others might consider “minor” can impact mental health. It’s very frustrating, especially when you feel like you ought to be able to just ignore it, but you simply can’t.
From the other side of the equation though, in the past months I’ve taken a huge step back from doing identifications for my own mental well-being. I also have OCD, and one of my stronger compulsions is sorting things into the correct categories - great for identifying, right? And if I can get them sorted out nice and orderly, it’s very calming for me.
But then along comes a group of schoolchildren posting 500 observations apiece of random landscaping and misidentifying every single one, and they’re doing it faster than I can keep with correcting them. I was feeling this overwhelming helpless anger that got stronger every time another one landed in the pile. Eventually I had to just close it down and take a break from the internet entirely to calm down, and I still haven’t gotten back to IDing much.
Now I want to be clear I am in no way trying to excuse people making unkind comments - but I thought perhaps it would be helpful to see the view from that angle.
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I’m sorry you were dismissed; this goes against the core of what this site is supposed to be: a place for people to learn and grow, from one another.
I know exactly what you mean. I have conversations with other i-natters about the same users who are continuously condescending when the attempted ID does not correlate. It is unfortunate and I hope people can try to be more sensitive. As someone who is neurodivergent, I take it pretty hard and it can really bring me down.
I am proud of the progress you have made. I hope you can find healing through nature and know that you didn’t deserve that.
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Yes, all social media and interactions on the Internet share a common issue, With text alone, we do not benefit from tone of voice, body language, eye movement such eye contact, and other in-person qualities that human beings respond to at various levels: consciously, subconsciously, and unconsciously. Without these qualities, communication is lacking the connective emotions that come with face-to-face contact. It is harder to empathize and discern true motive, and easier to project one’s own issues onto the very few words that we actuallly receive. We essentially fill the void of data with our own possibly insecure or neurotic issues and concerns in a lot of cases.
A mentally healthy person is able to account for this, and adjust expectations accordingly. If disturbance occurs, we are able to take breaks, reflect on our experienced emotion, give people the benefit of the doubt, or forgive them if they did say something upsetting. Unfortunately, the more open and sensitive we are, normally good qualities in a human being, the more possibly susceptible we are to the words of others.
It would be unrealistic to expect everyone to always write their words with the most vulnerable and sensitive recipients in mind, especially after many weary hours of work. Therefore, although the platform admins could possibly help in the most extreme cases of difficult interpersonal behaviors, most of the time users would be better to step back and remind ourselves that we’re dealing with flawed people and not to take things too personally. But I get that someone who is already struggling with emotional and interpersonal issues might need to take a break, or choose to refocus on real in-person experiences.
For the OP, I get that it might be best to perhaps find a way to connect with a few local people who share a common interest, until such time as you feel more solid in yourself and able to withstand a few arrows?
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Inat in many ways carries my mental health. Even though I know I always enjoy going out exploring, it can be such a uphill battle to have the motivation to set off and do it. As a rule of thumb I make plans, and force myself to do them. Its hard, but it works. One of the things that really helps is aiming for “lifers” basically, looking at what I havent found, and making that a goal.
My page is observation heavy, and I really appreciate everyones help on IDs, especially advice they give when I ask on how to take photos that will be better for IDs with the species I find.
In terms of IDing, one of the main reasons I don’t is overt amounts of Anxiety about being wrong, even about species which I know are 100% likely to be right. Especially if someone else has already IDed it, and I disagree with thier ID. I am extremly conflict averse, and feel terrible even in minor disagreement. But its not because of others here, who I am sure would be mostly fine, its more of a personal thing to work through. For now, I certainly will keep on observing, and using and unoberved by in area page to help keeping me looking
The “&unobserved_by_user_id=” string really helps motivate me, dont know if it will help others.
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Ive scaled my use way back also for similar reasons/ Some people are just awful to me and I haven’t been able to get any resolution. But I recognize i’ve been hurtful to others also at times, i mean part of this is just life, but i know i get too adamant about things sometimes. I won’t get into detail either because we aren’t supposed to and because i think the people running iNat really do care and want to do a good job, but there are some things that just should be addressed but haven’t been. Much of it links to broader problems with global society where no one really has the resources and time to do ‘the right thing’ and growth is prioritized over community health. Social status in the academic field is prioritized over kindness and sometimes even over accuracy. Actions that could really improve things just never happen, and the rules aren’t enforced consistently. Given we know a TON of autistic people use iNat that’s an even bigger problem because a lot of autistic people definitely including me struggle when rules aren’t clear or consistent.
I’m not asking for change or to call anyone out or anything like that, i am just saying, i have had similar experiences. I doubt I’ll quit entirely, and will probably continue to observe things each summer, but it’s lost most of its joy for me. And to be fair, i feel that way about other social media even more so than iNat. For me it’s not depression it is autistic burnout, but they are very similar and perhaps often confused. Nowadays i just find myself choosing a video game instead of the internet, and choosing growing native plants in my own yard over creating, curating, and identifying observations on iNaturalist. Certainly the site has grown as a whole so it isn’t some sort of ‘twitter/X’ situation. But iNat has changed a lot and in some ways that is good, but in other ways not, and some people are just not going to belong any more.
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So yeah… for what it is worth not everyone benefits from eye contact or can read tone of voice or body language. Some people do better on text.
It’s never just that we can’t withstand arrows. it’s that we shoot arrows back and for some reason that isn’t acceptable even though the initial arrows are. Some person with high academic standing can shoot arrows at me, lob grenades at random new users, etc etc etc. But i poke back with a toothpick and it’s the apocolypse and i get in trouble.
I think this post really misses the point here, and suffers from a lack of recognition how different people really are even when mentally healthy,
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Some of the problems with iNat are likely due to its explosive growth. It’s no longer the rather small “niche” corner of the internet where a relatively limited number of nature enthusiasts would post their records and could expect those records to be reviewed by others fairly quickly. It’s become huge among naturalists, with a steady flood of new records pouring in every day. For those who ID a lot and really try to stay ahead of the flood, it’s probably very frustrating, especially when the photo quality in many records is rather poor. When something becomes too big it becomes less personal and the participants might become a little less friendly. I can understand why someone would want to back away from participating.
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It doesn’t always work that way unfortunately. I remember struggling in undergrad chemistry with a new professor who was theoretical and short on explanations. A veteran teacher showed me what I was doing wrong in chemical equations and my interest and grades improved.
In iNaturalist if we know more than the average bear about a particular animal or plant, we have to make some kind of effort to point people in the right direction. If this decreases the total number of observations identified than so be it. I always thought iNaturalist was not about number of species identified but the total experience. If it’s just a numbers game, then I agree that it is better to find another venue.
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Yes and this is a broader problem with …everything. Nothing is considered a success until it grows explosively. iNat can’t grow forever, and the infastructure, culture, and protections for vulnerable people need to grow along with the site and they just haven’t. By no means is this specific to inaturalist as it’s true for many other places too. But i am a niche person. I don’t belong in the mainstream. if that is what iNat is going to be, at best i’ll be a casual user. It’s not ‘all about me’, but it is worth thinking a bout how some people are marginalized and what the effects are. I know for a fact i am not the only one as many others have reached out to me. If iNat turns into an arm of academia, it will lose all the people excluded by academia’s social structure who used to be here and i feel like they were a lot of what made it special.
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So how does that get fixed? More moderators? More aggressive sanctions against iNatters who might not have good people skills (which is probably a lot of us)? Every interaction with another human has the potential to be a negative experience for any of us, although I recognize some of us are more sensitive to perceived slights or insults than others. But how do you deal with that in an environment with diverse participants?
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Are you actually asking or just making the point that it’s hard? I can’t tell.
How can it be fixed? Taxonomic curation and behavior modification needs to be 100% unpaired. Those can’t be linked. Any ‘curator’ can moderate and some of them shouldn’t be. Moderators need to be chosen for their skills at moderation, and kept separate from the taxonomic curators and only overlapping when it is clear someone happens to have both skill sets, which isn’t that common. The rules need to be clear, and fair. No one can ever be allowed less stringent rules because they are ‘a really important scientist’ or whatever. This has absolutely happened in iNat and is rife in academia and is a huge part of why it isn’t inclusive. Horrible people face no consequences. I’m not talking about misunderstandings or someone who doesn’t read social cues. I’m talking about consistent and repeated abusive behavior. It’s allowed or even encouraged in certain people on iNat. I won’t name names because that’s a bad path to go down but i know for a fact these people have led to other, more marginalized, people leaving the site.
I don’t think ‘sensitivity’ is a good metric. I think that gets toxic. I don’t think that’s the issue. I think the issue is social status. Some fancy ‘scientist’ dishes abuse down to me, and i dish anger right back up, and i’m not supposed to do that. I think what you call ‘sensitive’ is often people with more trauma who have been treated worse than others.
In respect to my own mental health, i cant go on a long debate about this. You can believe me, or not. I’m not asking anyone else to actually do what i am saying i think is needed. I’m simply stating that this is why i use iNat much less than I used to.
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I was actually asking, not trying to be argumentative.
I myself haven’t run into that sort of thing you describe on iNat, possibly because I focus on taxa that might be less controversial or have a greater diversity of knowledgeable IDers. Not saying it doesn’t exist, just haven’t seen it. I have experienced it in academia and I’ve seen it ruin some good students, so I know it exists.
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Although I don’t have a fix for the problems that come with iNaturalist’s explosive growth, I have some suggestions for how I deal with it to keep my iNat world small, engaged, and personalized. Maybe this will help somebody.
- As an identifier, I don’t try to catch up or stay on top of some chunk of iNat. That only leads to frustration.
- When I feel like identiying, I can choose to look at only one taxon and only my state, or even county. That way I get to know the observers, notice new ones, and am more likely to feel like making helpful comments. They’re more likely to recognize me, too, and reciprocate.
- I agree with the sentiment above that stopping to make a helpful comment is worth more than a dozen quick IDs. I think of it as educating more future identifiers.
- If I see an observation I don’t want to deal with (poor quality photo, or the person ticks me off somehow) I mark it reviewed and pass on. Marking it reviewed means I won’t see it again, which is fine.
- Since I don’t have an identifier goal, I can quit when I’m tired of it without feeling guilty.
This is a great community. Love your comments.
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Agreed. While I admire those who are power IDers, I can’t do that. If I ID records at a rate that’s about 3-4 times what I submit I feel I’m doing good and can avoid the whole burn-out/frustration trap. For me it’s better to just recognize that there will always be records that remain unIDed and unresolved.
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Although “beggars can’t be choosers” is a well-known expression, it too often comes across as a begrudging, “you should be thankful you got anything at all!” As if having needs is an imposition.
Oh, yes!! I tend to have what are termed “intrusive thoughts” – it might be related to my autism. It made my early childhood difficult, because whenever I was disciplined or corrected, I responded by telling my side of the story persistently; it could go on all day. I simply could not accept the correction and move on.
This isn’t something that one outgrows, although one may learn to stuff it to survive. I was recently given a one-month timeout by the moderator of an online group (another platform), for what I thought was a clear-cut case of misconstruing my words – followed by the usual Miranda-rights situation. It took me three days to be able to go more than a few minutes without composing elaborate rebuttals to that moderator, and for the entire month, I still thought of it several times a day. The intrusive thoughts only dissipated when the time-out expired and I was able to go back to participating.
It is important in a thread like this to go back to the original post and remind ourselves of the problem. I would second what @coloeus said – are these from lots of different people, or just a certain one or few? A few loud voices drowning out many quieter ones can create an impression that is different from the majority behavior.
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