i dunno, it kind of is the end of the world for a lot of plants and habitats? And putting data on iNat is helpful for conservation? I know we can’t literally get everything on here but i still find the desire to turn away good data with an involved steward to be really weird.
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Ok, Charlie… give one example of a situation where an iNatter didn’t post an observation on behalf of someone else, and that species became extinct…
For what it’s worth, I personally think we should be allowed to post on behalf of others, but as @tiwane pointed out, it is not the intent of the site to cater for that. It is another example of what I would term “off-label use”, i have done it… I will likely do it again… but it is not something that should be encouraged or catered for. Just my opinion…
That’s an absurd and unanswerable question as I’m sure you know. We are in an ecosystem collapse and extinction crisis though so the status quo more or less does mean many more extinctions. We don’t know which individual action weighs it one way or another but throwing away data for semantics in a crisis is short sighted.
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I disagree… I think the assertion that the omission of one piece of data will be the tipping point to extinction of a given species is far more absurd
It sounds like you don’t actually understand what a tipping point is so I’m going to stop discussing it with you.
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Would be interesting if the specimen was the only one found in that area in the last 50 years. :)
People spouting extremes on both sides make people apathetic to the whole ecology thing. Unbelievable statements aren’t believed. Surprise!
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For that, I would make an “off-label” observation :)
(and have in the past… too!)
I think doing it a few times not a big deal, like what @kiwifergus describes. But I would hate to see iNaturalist become a dumping ground for photos that the photographer doesn’t care about. I don’t think it’s pushing forward the main goal, which is to build a community of naturalists. I would say the reason iNaturalist has grown so well is because of the engaged community.
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I think the problem is that if it is officially sanctioned, then it becomes an easy way out, that is to get the data point without engaging the observer. So for me, the priority is:
- Encourage them to open an account, even if it means I have to step them through everything initially.
If they won’t open an account, then:
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If the data point is valuable, sneak through an on-behalf obs, but certainly don’t try to legitimise the practise or overly advertise that you are doing so. It’s “off label” use of iNat, respect iNat’s guidelines/mission.
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If it’s just a data point of average value, then let it just be one of the data points that never makes it to iNat, no big deal!
If you feel iNat SHOULD sanction on-behalf obs and 2nd accounts, then you could post a feature request! I had raised the idea of mentor and/or probationary accounts specifically to help with this sort of assistance to new users getting accounts started and learning the ropes. Maybe we could look at re-evaluating that approach?
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here’s a use case: employees or volunteers collect data for a mapping or inventory project but don’t want to add them to iNat… the organization has the photos and permission to use them but it doesn’t make sense to create an official iNat page for it (and that isn’t an individual account anyway), and there is someone available to curate the data.
Eternal data curation by the person who took the photo isn’t a thing anyway because people aren’t immortal. I sure hope you all don’t delete my data after I die just because i can’t respond to @'s from beyond the grave or whatever.
This is part of the continued downplaying of the importance of one of the most comprehensive and accessible biodiversity databases on the planet. I just don’t get it…
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My two cents: I’ve uploaded 4 or 5 photos to my iNat that were not mine. They were from my daughter in WA who had to remove Seek from her phone due to storage space, from my other daughter down the road from me who found something interesting in her garden but otherwise isn’t big into things like iNat, and from my nephew trying to ID the snake in his hands. Each photo was placed and timed accurately and I noted they were observed by someone else related to me.
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There is usually a flurry of comments nearer the upload time, and activity tapers off as time goes by. The odd spike as older observations are reviewed by new specialist attention. Moot point given the number of absentee accounts, especially from duress users…
It is interesting that you raise what iNat has become. It would be very interesting indeed if iNat were forked and one of those forks went on to focus more aggressively on the data point collection aspect. My impression is that iNat could take a much harder line on it’s “policy” of only personal observations, but instead finds a reasonable middle ground between the two extremes. I also believe it’s success to date has largely been because of it’s focus on community. I liken it to computer development in history, where I think it was IBM(?) once predicted a worldwide need for 5 computers. Every major leap forward in computer development seems to have come with an increased “focus” on community… The Altair in university circles, Apple and Microsoft, Arpanet, Internet, Facebook… I think if you take that community focus aspect out of iNats history, then it wouldn’t have become what you refer to.In other words, iNat has such a rich data source precisely because it was not driven with data point collection as the primary goal.
https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/what-inaturalist-is-for/2995/2
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I think we just have to accept that, as Tony alludes to, iNat is not and never will be an ultimate data resource for everything.
Obviously that information is useful and interesting, and maybe there can be more breathing on the matter in future…
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yes but i contend that people doing this is going to strengthen, not weaken the community.
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Yes, and you should have noticed that, though I quote your first sentence for the sake of brevity, I am actually agreeing with your third sentence. In my mind the copyright issue is the only one that stands out as a potential problem.
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