Neurodiversity and iNaturalist!

I am currently at one phone call a week, and I can cope with it because it is extremely predictable - we discuss the TV program we just saw (currently Bake Off, Doctor Who when in season). I barely get a word in edgeways, but most people can barely get a word in edgeways with him.

For a few months now, I have been running the technical side of my local Quaker meeting via zoom. We mostly just sit in silence (I am confused by the evangelical end of Quakers), but I find it more stressful than when we did it in person. There’s a good chance that I’ll be crocheting through it before the month is out.

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Oh, unrelatedly, i wanted to post about one ‘odd’ thing i have always done that helped me figure this all out. I draw maps. Like, for work i draw maps of wetlands, but since i’ve been a kid i have drawn maps of hypothetical imaginary places.

I was very surprised to learn that a lot of people on the autism spectrum draw similar sorts of things. I thought i was the only one on the planet to do such an odd thing so i’d usually hide or throw away my maps but my mom found and saved a bunch of them. There are a bunch in this twitter thread: https://twitter.com/SlowWaterMvmnt/status/1256006236400693248

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With a stutter, I have developed a hatred of phone calls, and avoid them at all costs. I’ve had too many people laugh or just hang up. I have no problems giving a presentation or speaking in public though, which is odd. My speech is no better, but it doesn’t bother me. Go figure.

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Cool map. I never drew maps, at least nothing this detailed, but have always been fascinated by them. They seemed to bring an order to the world that otherwise could not be understood. I’d sit with a topographic map and study it, even if I wasn’t planning a trip to the area. It helped me build a map in my head about where I was in relation to other places on the globe. Still love collecting them and studying them, although the GPS unit has made them somewhat obsolete.

I knew an art student in college who mapped out her daily routes around town over a month or two period. She had them all marked out on a paper map of the city, with heavier lines where she followed a particular path more than once. It was apparently some sort of art class exercise, but it reminded me of home range maps of an animal that a zoologist might construct, showing den sites, travel corridors, and foraging areas. Seemed kind of peculiar at the time but have to admit I was intrigued.

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I spent countless hours looking at delorme atlases. I had like 30 of them for different US states. Even though at that time I’d barely been out of California. This was pre google maps which of course is a huge wonderful rabbit hole to say nothing for inat observation maps :)

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Thanks for bringing up this topic!

I am definitely neurodivergent, although I’m not exactly sure how…it’s been an ongoing process in recent years of trying to pin it down and understand it.

When I’ve been tested for various conditions, I tend to test as being “almost autistic but not”, like just outside the criteria or cutoffs used for asperger’s or high-functioning autism, but more towards the autistic side of normal, if that makes sense. I definitely do not have ADHD. However, like @lappelbaum brought up, I have very high sensory-processing-sensitivity, and I test strongly as an HSP (“highly sensitive person”).

I sometimes wonder if me not testing as autistic though is related to gender bias, as I’ve read articles on how autism is undiagnosed in women. Although I was assigned male at birth and raised as a boy, I am nonbinary and transfeminine, and have always had more affinity to girls and women in terms of identifying more with their experiences. And of course…my experience of gender definitely makes me weird. Even when I perceive and understand social norms, I don’t always want to follow them, especially the gendered ones. I have years and years behind me of visceral negative reactions to all the gendered double standards, seeing the ways people treat me differently from women based on perceiving me as male, and how intensely I hate it, and how some people can get very defensive when I try, even gently and respectfully, to point these things out and express how I would ideally like people to treat me and others.

When I read the accounts of autistic girls and women, especially those who were not diagnosed, and were just intangibly “weird”, they resonate with me a lot.

Also, related to this, I’ve struggled with depression on and off over the years, mainly in the first 10 or so years after graduating college. Thankfully I have mostly overcome it and have been much better in recent years. I do think depression and anxiety disorders, whether or not people are on the autism spectrum, are their own form of neurodiversity.

The high sensory-processing-sensitivity definitely relates to my interest as a naturalist. For example, when I go birding, I’m often the first person in a large group to hear distant birds singing. My eyesight is poor (very nearsighted, lenses can only do so much) so I’m not usually the sharpest at spotting birds, and I rely a lot on sound.)

It also causes me problems in life. Loud lawn equipment especially, really disturbs me more than most people.

I’m also very smell-oriented. That’s one thing I find is missing on iNaturalist…I love pouring over photos of different plants, but when I’m out and about, one of the things I use to ID plants is smell. Often I even smell a plant before I see it!

So yeah, for me, this stuff definitely relates to my interest in iNaturalist!

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Just to be clear, I wasn’t talking at all about books which have also been made into movies. I mean that the way my brain visually imagines the scenes in books and presents them in a continuous stream is very similar to the experience of watching a movie. I picture the appearance of characters and setting in great detail as if they are real people and places. I actually dislike real movie adaptations of books because they’re nothing like how I pictured things looking.

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Yep! Me too. I jokingly brag about having an ebird list of 35 species but I only saw 15 as I sat still and otherwise occupied, hearing things. My eyesight is fairly decent so my visual hypervigilance (PTSD exacerbated) also makes me handy as a spotter in the group.

I had a full breakdown from two consecutive days of hearing chainsaws and I routinely lose my mind and feel like my brain might burst out of my ears during stupid lawn equipment season and winter when people ruin the calm of a blizzard with a snowblower. Actually, if I’m being really really honest, such noise disturbances actually trigger a sort of classic tourette’s rage thing. Not my fave.

And also this! :)

I’m likewise sensitive to gendered “norms” and feel that my queerness and weirdness and somewhat gender-non-binary-ness and other labels all intersect and thus can’t necessarily be sequestered out for explanations but I think they all make me a much better naturalist. Diversity in genetics and morphology are some of the most interesting things to observe in the natural world. Strange (to us) adaptations and interesting reproductive techniques are the obvious things but I feel that those of us who are used to being misidentified ourselves and who present in life in a less understood or less accepted way have a particular gift and/ or sensitivity (or both however one chooses to think of these things) for picking up the delicate and beautiful nuances of the natural world.

Thanks for sharing this.

This is better than a support group! :laughing: You folks are awesome.

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Hi Cazort! That sounds somewhat similar to me actually. I am male and AMAB (maybe i am agender really but i am too apathetic about gender to personally pursue it right now) but my ‘autism spectrum profile’ fits much better with autistic women rather than men. I posted some stuff up above that may be interesting to you, or maybe you already saw it…

This also fits me really well personally despite not being female:
https://the-art-of-autism.com/females-and-aspergers-a-checklist/
Not all of it, but a huge chunk.

Of course, you can also be neurodivergent and not fit into the ‘autism spectrum’ and/or ‘adhd’ boxes as they are currently defined. It’s kinda like white ash vs green ash right? Sometimes you can REALLY tell which is which and other times you can only say hmmm, maybe white ash or green ash, maybe some black ash genetics too? nature is messy, both with biodiversity and neurodiversity :) Anyway thanks for posting!

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I wonder if this is one factor why neurodivergent people are attracted to the naturalist community. I find that naturalists are a subculture where the clothing people wear tends to be driven by practical constraints. I.e. when I go out in the field I wear shoes that can get wet, pants that protect me from thorns and don’t snag on them, a long-sleeved shirt so I don’t sunburn, but loose-fitting so that I can stay cool if I’m active in hot weather, and a wide-brimmed hat.

I notice that when I dress this way, people peg me as a “nature person”. The clothing though is driven by practical constraints, not social norms, and if there are any social norms they are formed by the strong practical constraints. Also, the clothing people wear tends to be pretty gender-neutral.

It’s very different from some of the other places I’ve worked where the social norms around clothing are driven by things like social status, such as wearing suits in a management consulting firm. In this case, the clothing might be impractical as you go through your daily life, as some of the garmets are dry-clean only, which is expensive and has environmental impacts, and they’re not as rugged so, for example, they preclude getting down on your hands and knees, going into dirty or dusty spaces, etc. It reminds me of “handicap signaling” in the natural world, like a bird with an impractically long tail that signals to mates its fitness, because of its ability to survive and evade predators even with such a handicap.

And these practical constraints have the effect of creating a social distance between yourself and others in “lower-status” positions, i.e. people like tradesmen, janitors, etc. The more I think of it, the more I find it abhorrent, because it’s supporting a system I not only don’t buy into, but that I think of as actively going against my moral code. I think the clothing norms are part of a system that involves a subtle dehumanization and that facilitates or encourages treating people labeled “lower status” with disdain or disrespect.

Like, to me, a lot of the norms in clothing seem to relate to coercive power relationships, often through a medium of social status: they are about subjugation and control. So for example, a management consulting firm wears suits because they utilize their high social status to extract wealth from the rest of society, such as through exploiting municipal governments, and thus indirectly, the taxpayers, with corrupt deals. Or there are norms for women in many circumstances to be expected to wear high heels and makeup and often other impractical, tight, or restrictive clothing that limits their range of motion, and these seem to me to relate to the subjugation of women in society as a whole, like women viewed as “pretty objects to look at” but not taken seriously as doers, and are made to do extra work just to be seen as “presentable” or “professional” even.

It’s always been bizarre to me the degree to which people tolerate these sorts of setups and social norms, even when they overtly contradict some of the other things we’re taught are supposed values of our society, like the idea that all people are created equal, beliefs in treating all people with respect, etc. I’ve found that, for whatever reasons, autistic people and other neurodivergent people are much more willing to seriously entertain these criticisms, whereas a lot of people don’t take these concerns particularly seriously when I raise them.

The naturalist community has always seemed much more free of these norms. I see less sexism, less bias on the basis of social status, and I see people engaging each other more on the basis of their knowledge and ability and other real, practical matters.

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I think this additionally lends itself to naturalizing folks, as the curiosity-driven observing of detail requires constant correction for assumptions, mind-opening and generally speaking, I find it hard to “believe in” empiricism and embody the spirit scientific inquiry then compartmentalize and deny societal or personal criticisms in the same pattern of questioning (often of internal origin in my own mind) when the facts lay bare in front of me. Sort of constantly, “Hello, why are you people not seeing this and freaking out too!!!???” in my head.

I have a compulsion to ask difficult ethical questions and wade into unknown philosophical territory and enjoy the discomfort and stimulation of emotional and intellectual growth so going about life ignoring what I see as realities of horrid proportions in the society I live in (U.S.) or censoring myself constantly by not discussing taboo subjects or challenging people beyond weather forecasts is untenable. I don’t do well with double standards and I explain it to people in the decidedly scientific language: hypocrisy and double standards and cruelty make my brain explode! Again, why the orderly and stimulating and meaningful iNaturalist experience is a soothing balm to my chapped and exhausted brain spaces.

I also consider finding loud, fun and expressive technical and practical outdoor gear a personal success story (only appropriate when camouflage is not necessary) because I like to be cheered and comfortable!

I’d def like to see an “I’m a NeuroNaturalist!” and Pride T-shirts in my dream iNat store

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Totally agree. Absolutely can’t stand “office clothes” And other stuff of that sort. A ton of other things too. Most social rituals feel very derived and pointless to me. Which makes sense given my neurology but somehow for years I never connected it all and just figured I was angry at colonial capitalism. (Well that is true too but it doesn’t explain why I got here and most people don’t )

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Very often most of my eBird species in a list are heard only. I hear high pitch very well so often I’m the only one who can hear a bird when birding with others. I’ve been concentrating on learning bird song over the last few years because of my chronic migraines. Looking through my binoculars for long periods can trigger a migraine. Also the vertigo I get with my migraines causes me to have trouble keeping my balance without visual clues (using binoculars messes that up) as an after effect. The chronic migraine also causes pain with bright light, vertigo with loud sound, and nausea with strong smells even between migraines. But I’ve always been bad at tuning out noises (especially talking) causing annoyance and poor concentration.

I’m very near sighted as well but am able to get good results with glasses. I’ve always been good at finding things: jewelry lost in the grass, bird in the tree, tiny plants, and tiny insects. I don’t use smell in naturalizing but my keen sense helps me tinker with spices in my cooking.

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As someone who is both neurodivergent and has significant mobility limitations, I’ve often wished for a place to talk with other folks with differences/disabilities. (I include ‘disabilities’ because to me, being unable to walk more than one to two-tenths of a mile is disabling, no matter what - especially when the special plants are .25 miles down the trail.)

Does anybody here know of such a group, that would include people with (so-called) physical limitations?

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Do you mean in general, or related to iNaturalist? Outside of iNat there are various neurodiversity and disability type communities on places like Twitter, Discord, Facebook etc, some are better than others.

You are not alone in your Cartography hobby. Personally I think the finicky little details are what drew me to mapping in the first place. Tom Patterson’s realistic National Park Service maps were my favourite part of GIS in College, and I play with many of those techniques.

http://www.shadedrelief.com/realism/

https://www.usgs.gov/core-science-systems/nli/landsat/national-park-service-cartographer-tom-patterson-talks-landsat

Also nodding in agreement at the general dislike of phones, gender norms, impractical/uncomfortable clothing, and societal hypocricy & double standards… But that all comes with the territory.

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here’s the ‘real’ mapping i am doing with LIDAR elevation data right now:

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Yes! I have inattentive ADHD (only found out this year at age 34). I go through most of my life shutting down impulses and purposely ignoring stimuli so that I can “pass” in society (albeit not well). I’m kind of borderline introverted/extroverted, because I love people, but I also have difficulty focusing on things like group conversations because so much of my energy is spent on not coming across as distractable or flaky. I do find it much easier to talk to other people who have ADHD or who are on the autism spectrum, because there is less pressure to conform to neurotypical social norms.

iNat has been a great way to let myself run wild for a bit. I feel so much more focused and relaxed when I allow myself to be distracted by anything that moves. Hyperfocus is also definitely part of it, although that manifests more in the research than the exploration part of things. I will admit that I have definitely weirded some people out when in the middle of an iNat trip because I am in full ADHD mode. (I once skipped by a couple on a hike to gleefully tell them there was a bobcat just YARDS AWAY and they gave me a weird, cold look and did not get excited about it).

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@charlie I have always been fascinated by maps, but never thought of it as something at all out of the ordinary (“isn’t everyone fascinated by maps?”), so thank you for enlightening me! I do a lot of ‘tinkering’ with the plants/communities directly around my house, and I often enjoy making rough maps of how I wish the site to look as a result of a certain management activity (though it never conforms to my ideas exactly, which is what I find so exciting), such as adding or removing plants, mowing parts of a meadow at different times of the year, etc…

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That’s trippy, man.

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