…which gets twisted in creationist writing into “Evolutionists won’t meet us in a fair debate,” with the implied meaning that it’s because they know they’re wrong.
As it is written on RationalWiki, “It is as impossible to convince a fractally wrong person of anything as it is to walk around the perimeter of the Mandelbrot set in finite time.”
Yes, I agree that every trait of an organism is under selection pressure. For example the skin may get an infection easily, although the skin may not be under direct selection pressure, it is still a disadvantage to the organism if it gets a skin infection. As the animal is living on earth, it is under the pressure of the gravity and the elements. From the sun too. I was just thinking yesterday of a question whether plants are sentient. Even if plants are not sentient, these organisms are still powered by the sun, mostly. That’s the understandable source of external input which is not a religious-linked explanation, unless one worships the sun.
There is some info about…economics of energy conservation or the energy conservation economics, something like that. Animals may lose some body parts due to disuse. Although it is a mystery in being consistent over generations. Example may be the human tail or the mangled tail of a domestic cat breed. In the cat model, probably the trait is dominant or semi-dominant and can be bred out. It is a vestigial organ of humans. The trait is still there, just not developed beyond a certain stage.
The course we discussed is happening!
https://www.simpletix.com/e/evolution-for-naturalists-tickets-122109
It is a three evenings (California Time) online, and I’m really excited for it. Thank you all for your input!
Congratulations.
Maybe give free tickets to all the correspondents on this discussion.
Or a you tube URL once it’s done.
I’m a bit late to the party, but I loved reading this thread and hearing all of your thoughts, as a creationist its often hard to find a rational discussion on the topic without it dissolving into an argument. I think its difficult, but important to maintain a respect and understanding of each viewpoint. I don’t feel qualified to offer much more than that, but I will say that most creationists believe in evolution to a large degree; that the basic lifeforms were created and diverged over time to ‘evolve’ into the huge amount of species we see today.
If the course does end up on youtube, please do share a link, I’d be very interested!
I will add that some of the most outspoken figures in creationism seem to be arguing against some idea that is not what evolution is about. Kent Hovind, for example, in one of his videos described a scenario in which individuals who would be considered disabled under “normal” conditions turn out to have an advntage in one particular environment. Now, to an evolutionary biologist, that is self-evident; that is literally the how the process of evolution works; but Hovind seemed to think that he was debunking evolution by emphasizing “in that particular environment.”
The opposite is also true. Well known anti-creationists completely misunderstand the nuances of creationism s.l.
The tickets link for the course is here:
https://sonomaecologycenter.org/event/evolution-for-naturalists/
If anyone wants to participate but can’t afford the ticket, please let me know.
Just a quick reminder to keep the discussion focused on the main topic (ie, relating to the course for naturalists) as opposed to a general discussion of creationism vs. (or with) evolutionary thinking.
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