All art requires the death of other organisms, given that other organisms are what humans eat, and we need to eat to make art.
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The museum here had a visiting exhibit along these lines. https://naturalsciences.org/exhibits/special-exhibitions/exquisite-creatures
While much of it was beautiful, it was also a bit disturbing. Mostly it was the scale. Hundreds of specimens were used for some of the pieces. I’m mostly ok with a few beetles adding flair to something but this was well beyond that. And then certain vertebrate groups just turned me off, especially the turtles. They reproduce so slowly and many are getting rare. The statement about “they passed of natural or incidental causes, most often in captivity” didn’t help much. Sure, it’s ok, he died in prison. I think I’d feel better if they were all collected from dead specimens found in the wild.
I’ll have to ask if the artist is donating their body to art or science.
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Do you know people are allowed dto have own view on things and not always agree with others? I know many people who are into taxidermy, I am fond of dead things too, it was the easiest way to learn organisms I was interested into, I see bones and feathers as something that can live for thousands of years after the organism is dead, it’s a real life after death. I don’t support harvesting hundreds of beetles just for their body parts.
If you’re so opposed to what I say, you can mute me on forum, that’d be easier than trying to add argumentation to what kind of human I am.
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Revisiting this thread just reminded me of an admittedly slightly strange woman I met many years ago. She made a rather modest living ‘repurposing’ roadkill. She saved and ate meat that was still good. She turned hide and fur into the usual things but with handcrafted flair. She turned feathers into fashion or art. She reassembled bones into skeletons and sold them to tourists. Skulls were very popular especially if she painted them or added beading. Her view was that letting the highway maintenance people haul away the animal so that it could be buried in a landfill was a waste of life.
It wasn’t an easy life though. She was arrested several times for “poaching”. She also faced a lot of criticism from people who claimed to be animal lovers. They seemed to think that all dead animals should be buried in a manner similar to a Christian burial.
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FWIW, I think you’re a really great one. And I think most would agree.
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Than you, you’re a kind soul.)
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Animals in captivity are not comparable to prison.
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I had a friend who told me if I ever hit a groundhog (and it was not too badly damaged), I should freeze it and call her because her neighbors ate groundhog. I never hit a groundhog while I knew her, but I didn’t forget what she said. I didn’t think it was awful at the time nor do I now. I hit a deer a few years back that did not die immediately, and I cannot tell you how awful it was waiting for the game warden (over an hour) to come shoot the deer. I would have much preferred and it would have been kinder had someone local been allowed to shoot it and use the meat. I don’t think it’s an environmental issue when someone repurposes what has been accidentally killed.
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I like you and your neighbor for considering that option. I’ve tried to get my neighbors to tell me if they accidentally kill a deer. I can still remember how to tan a hide and my dog would be happy for the meat even if I may have become a little more squeamish. No luck so far.
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Interesting that the quotation about the fishing bait left out the part about utilizing hides and sometimes stuffing. I picked these quotes because they are not really about the same kind of repurposing. Donating the groundhog meat to a family who would eat it is different from, say, building an art piece out of groundhog parts.
I mentioned the mink coats before. Those sort of straddle the line – yes, one could argue that they keep the wearer warm, but there are nowadays many other options for that, and mink coats are more of a fashion statement than a necessity.
Depending on how strictly we apply this, it would also preclude things like wood carving, inlay work, and fine furniture, since trees are living organisms. And it is true that certain trees – considered “precious” woods, such as rosewood or ebony – are subject to poaching because of their natural beauty. It is also true that monoculture timber plantations have some things in common with industrial factory farming.
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There is a reason why nations that used hides for clothes still use those when they have money and means to get something else, some types of fur are unique and better suited than any plastic clothing done today, because those mammals (and birds like Eider) live in the same conditions. When some practices live through thousands of years, they prove to be useful. Minks are an edge case cause they were in fashion, but now it’s very niche.
Mustelids’ coats are always better in wild animals, but wild populations can’t sustain the demand, on the other hand introducing american mink was one of the worst things happening in the last centuries to European mammals.
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So is your contention that repurposing something that is already dead for ‘art’ or beauty is bad but if it is used for something practical it is OK?
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Frankly, I have pretty strong opinions on using natural materials for clothing whenever possible. Obviously its not always possible, but every bit of plastic we use in clothing will eventually break down in to microplastics that are straight up really bad for the environment. Its extremely hard, especially in america, to completely cut out plastic use (seriously, why do toilet paper and paper towels come in plastic bags, I really want someone to explain this to me) - but I do what I can.
Wool, leather, feathers, silk, and yes, even fur. Hell, even the above mentioned beetle wings for clothing. These materials are durable, breathable, and sustainable, and when they’re no longer useful they can be disposed and they’ll just decompose naturally. Now of course, I don’t think we should go about harvesting all of the above in a cruel way, but if its done in a way that uses all parts of the animal? Absolutely. Rabbit fur is soft and warm, the rabbits can be bred for both meat and fur, and while its not as elegant as some higher end furs, its certainly functional.
Frankly, whenever I see the words ‘vegan leather’ I get annoyed. Unless its mushroom leather, which is not common, its just a way of gussying up the word plastic
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Yes to this. I wish I was so articulate.
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Actually, in many cases not really, as (except for some easily kept species) those butterflys are often collected as caterpillars or pupae in the wild… btw, also for many of those butterfly farms
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Yeah, you’re right. The animals didn’t break any laws.
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Are you really trying to argue that well-cared-for animals with an easy, often pampered life, (eg. pet dogs) is like prison? I think you need to look a bit more into how animals are kept in captivity (and prisons).
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If you like, sure. Even in well maintained zoos, you can usually find some animals exhibiting signs of trauma from captivity, like endless pacing and other repetitive behaviors. Good zoos are trying to lessen and mitigate the effects but some animals just don’t take it well. Also, many animals are pretty much always trying to escape. So the cage as a home seems not to be the preferred choice. I wouldn’t discount the negative effects of captivity since I doubt you’d trade your freedom for a cushy bed, 3 squares a day, and the only outside ventures involve restraints.
So before you get upset that I may be proposing an end to all captivity, I’m not. The context of my original statement was about use of animals and their parts for art. That’s where I think animals found dead in the wild is better than than captive bred. Granted, my opinion is probably influenced by how I value art as much as my views of captivity. Research and educational purposes get more latitude than what is essentially a vanity product.
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In reputable zoos, animals exhibiting trauma behavior are usually animals rescued from bad homes that have been unable to break those habits in these new, better homes.
Sure, animals escape, but assuming that is because they are unhappy is anthropomorphizing (as is your statement on what I would prefer), there’s no evidence for that. We do need to remember that animals are not Humans, and just because we would prefer the abstract concept of freedom doesn’t mean animals do, or even understand what it is.
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I’m very aware that animals are not Humans. Are you aware that Humans are animals?
Wondering when the admins will find this all and ruin our fun. :)
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