Should curators have a critical point of view when changing iNat taxonomy?

I think one of the tricky things with iNat is that there are so many people and opinions involved and that it covers the entire world, which makes things that much trickier. There probably should be review criteria met before any change happens on iNat and maybe a mandatory waiting period between when a change is proposed and happens to allow for debate.

Speaking from my experience on taxonomic work, it’s pretty hard to make some decisions but decisions often have to be made. I’m a field botanist that does mostly conservation related work but I took a detour to play around with taxonomy with a genus that was lumped so badly that the majority of taxa with a conservation rank were lumped, which is very problematic for managing them. From the standpoint of the uber-lumper who made the mess, I did a lot of splitting/unlumping. From the standpoint of past splitters, I did some lumping and some splitting. It is worth noting that the lumper said that what the splitter did is just as justifiable as what he did. If the lumper had recognized the same taxa as the splitter but just made many of the species into varieties or subspecies, I don’t think it would have been a big deal as the boundaries between the ranks are often subjective and wishy-washy.

I used varieties (generally equivalent to subspecies) to denote taxa that appeared to be closely related (usually formed a single clade), were often geographically adjacent, were often mostly morphologically distinct, and appeared to possibly be diverging from a single taxon. Essentially varieties and subspecies are taxa well on their way to becoming species. I also used varieties when more research was needed rather than making a hasty decision. Some of my varieties are polyphyletic species but the DNA evidence isn’t solid on those and may never be as nature is messy. Arguably, everything I treated as a variety could justifiably be treated as a species and someone may put them back to species rank as some point if there is good evidence for it. Keeping some at variety for now, makes it easy for people to just ID to species when necessary. The reality is that that may just be a temporary stage for some taxa while waiting for evidence to confirm they should be species. One species in particular has evidence pointing to the likelihood of it being multiple morphologically similar species.

I completely lumped three taxa as the DNA results weren’t clear (and one presumed extinct I didn’t have fresh DNA for) and I couldn’t make a key that worked, but I recommended future research on them and they may be split back out at some point.

I described four new species. Three of these were just obviously morphologically different, so no controversy there. One was a cryptic species though. It is sometimes very difficult to tell it apart from what I split it from but it is geographically distinct and the DNA says they are not even closely related. I also took a variety of one species and brought it back to the species rank as it was again not closely related in the DNA, it was geographically distinct, and had its flowering phenology shifted about a month from the rest of what I split it off of.

I should note that all the clear species in this genus form hybrids with other clear species where they make geographic contact. That is just the messy reality of many plant species. That said, with this genus, you can ID most plants just based on where they occur as very few overlap geographically. There are also areas that just appear to be hybrid messes or maybe incipient species. I just call those intermediates. And the most wide-ranging species is ridiculously variable morphologically, which causes a lot of confusion, but all the evidence is solid that it is a distinct species.

The bottom line is that I wrote a treatment that followed the current evidence as well as possible and tried to make things as usable as possible for field biologists as I am one. That said, I had to write a geographically based key as many morphological characters overlap between taxa and it is only the combination of many of these that distinguish the taxa. Most are easily distinguished by gestault and where they occur, but you may need to measure the trichomes down to the nearest 10th of a mm to key them. They are still way easier to ID than many bryophytes though, which should be considered as much in ecology as large easy to ID plants.

While my work may be different than others, I would assume most taxonomist are trying to sort things out to the best of their ability and make something that is useful to other people. Like me, some may just have to put out a best guess on some taxa until a future researcher can sort it out. Hopefully they note this in their work. And in many cases, things are just really messy and there is nothing anyone can do about it. I think most people doing taxonomy are just chipping away at the many messes from either lack of data or technology to sort out the questions properly in the past, or cleaning things up from the more excessive lumpers and splitters, who in many cases thought they were doing right but didn’t have the necessary data to make good decisions. Sampling is everything and, if you look at the sampling of many (maybe most) scientific studies, it will baffle you that they could actually publish it. People only have so much time and money though.

Some people give species more weight than subspecies or varieties but anything with a name can be protected as far as I know. Animals can even get special population protection but that’s not likely to happen for plants without a name. Where lumping becomes bad is when a rare taxon is totally subsumed into a common taxon or multiple rare taxa are combined to become one common taxon. Just changing from species to subspecies or variety doesn’t matter a whole lot from the standpoint of laws as far as I know.

Why did I split off the cryptic species I did in my treatment? They aren’t closely related and they don’t occur near each other. If I didn’t have DNA evidence showing they were not closely related, I probably would have described it as a new variety rather than a species. Let’s say they grew together, which is where it would be more problematic for a field biologist. If they were subspecies or varieties growing together, that means they are closely related and probably would be hybridizing and just turn into one thing. So, if growing together and remaining distinct phylogenetically, they would probably be distinct species even if they are morphologically similar unless they diverged elsewhere and came back together with reproductive barriers. There are of course all kinds of other messy options (polyploids) and the reality of the relationships of many plant taxa is that things are very messy. For the not so messy situations where taxa are morphologically cryptic though, if two taxa that look very similar are much more closely related to other clearly distinct species, then it makes sense for them to be species and not subspecies.

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@keirmorse Thank you, this is very interesting and appreciated!

A few things:

The way i learned things long ago was when things hybridize freely they shouldn’t be separate species. I recognize that is probably too far towards lumping even for me in the case of plants as some very distinct species do hybridize freely. But I do think people go too far the other way. (that again isn’t necessarily true for your work just a general statement).

I get really confused with why people do this on that scale. Yes, when I identify an oak in Vermont I don’t consider every species in Asia when I make my ID. However, with something like Malacothamnus which are freely intergrading, very close together populations that are very dynamic, isnt creating species that are identified by location very circular? Ultimately people end up only identifying them based on location most of the time which totally removes the chance of finding neat variations in range. I had a very extreme example as a field tech in the past when i was told to identify a certain sagebrush species any time it was above 7000 feet. The maps came out very nice with a clearly defined boundary between species at 7000 feet, which had no actual scientific merit at all. This is where i think we should have a lumped species and identify them to the splitty subspecies only when we see the traits. Yes us field ecologists should also spend more time keying plants (and be given time to do so), but when we don’t, i don’t want to identify only by location on this scale. It just seems too recursive. Of course, it makes sense to include locations in keys too and to consider location heavily, it just shouldn’t be the only factor. But when projects require ID to species there isn’t much choice, thus the data problems. And honestly, i dont think i can reliably measure anything to the 10th of a MM without a bunch of really expensive tools no one is going to buy a field ecologist. But maybe others are just better at that stuff than I am.

Yeah, i know taxonomists aren’t some malicious enemy trying to ruin my field project. Though some on iNat get pretty awful at times.

I guess i just can’t see the value of calling these sorts of things different species, as it’s so messy as you say, and honestly i am not convinced the genetic analysis always gets it right. I honestly wish it wasn’t used at all for taxonomy, i personally think it has made things worse for ecology. I’m sure many people would disagree with that. But it’s resulted in a flurry of taxonomic changes and hasn’t resulted in any improvements i’ve seen in overall understanding of ecosystems or in conservation. But maybe I am just too cynical. I just think it’s better to have clear, usable, kinda ‘wrong’ species we can apply to conservation and ecological inventory, rather than technically more ‘correct’ species that are unusable 95% of the time. Maybe what we need is a new taxonomic entity below species for cryptic species, but i know it’s hard to define what is or isn’t cryptic and that’s where certain people start tossing insults that if you’re a splitter or have a broader definition of cryptic you must be a bad botanist. Maybe I’m a good botanist, maybe I am not, but i have tens of thousands of wetlands in my state alone that have never had any form of ecological inventory, and i’d rather get to twice as many of them each year than to spend half my field days in a lab distinguishing two cryptic species of Carex stricta or something.

But yeah it is all messy. I know it’s all messy. I don’t expect iNat to be the lumpers paradise i say i want. I just wish there’d be a bit more oversight, consistency, and recognition that the site isn’t for taxonomy alone. Right now it appears there is more oversight over identifying an individual observation (which requires an independent review of at least one person to get research grade ) than to create an entire species that dramatically splits apart thousands of existing observations, which can be done unilaterally by one curator who may not even have any basis for doing so.

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I should clarify that the key starts with geography to break it down into more manageable groups to ID morphologically. The alternatively is to have every couplet list 10 overlapping characters. That said, two endemic island taxa (varieties) need more work and location is the best thing used for them.

Yep, but you aren’t going to ID many mosses, lichens, sedges, etc. that aren’t already familiar with without delving into the microscopic. My taxa, in most cases look pretty distinct but you sometimes have to focus in on smaller characters to find characters that do not overlap much and have a much higher accuracy in keys.

Evolutionary biologists care about relationships in classification. Not much you can do about that. And genetics does not always get it right. Lots of studies, especially those where taxa were lumped, did not have good sampling of specimens and/or loci. And some taxa are just too messy in reality to sort out and the whole idea of species doesn’t even fit. In other cases, it is very straightforward. In all cases, all evidence, not just DNA should be considered. DNA should only be one piece of the evidence.

You just need to decide what is important to your survey/study. If things that look like Carex stricta don’t matter for your study, just define those taxa as Carex-stricta-like-species. Plenty of studies just call things Carex sp. Some things are just hard to ID and that is okay.

It’s a mess on the other side too. Many taxa that are readily distinguishable are lumped on iNat. It’s just a complicated mess and that is the reality of life and evolution in general.

Put in a feature request for this if there isn’t one already. A mandatory delay before changes go live to allow for review by others, especially when a larger amount of observations are involved, seems like a good start.

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but i’m not saying it is unimportant or that people shouldn’t care about it! I just don’t think it should be completely entwined in the species concept to the extent it increasingly is. We could find better ways to understand genetic lineages that don’t break ecology for other uses…

Well firstly, i do care about Carex, i just can’t identify cryptic species that can’t be identified, you know? Secondly i can make up my own species groupings all day, and i do to some extent, but then it becomes impossible to exchange data with others. It’s a high cost for us to pay for the evolutionary biologists who have basically broken our tool by using it for something it was never designed for. Like trying to use a drill as a sledgehammer. It works poorly as a sledgehammer and now it’s broken entirely for drilling. We need the species concept for things other than parsing out cryptic genetic groupings and no one else is even being heard about this… the subspecies solution is easy, elegant, and doesn’t get in the way of genetic based research in any way, so it still confuses me why it is rejected in favor of the drill sledgehammer thing.

I already have, multiple times. It’ll just get deleted if I keep sending them. Unless others care enough to do so, it isn’t going to change.

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I’d be interested in reading the post and associated discussion if you have a link for past feature requests, and it sounds like they’d be relevant to the topic of this thread here. Just requiring confirmation from another curator for a change makes sense, but it sounds like you might be suggesting something more complex?

I’m not proposing anything specific right now and i don’t want to dredge up old drama, i just want to say, if others agree with me maybe they could propose something too because if it just seems like one person’s weird rant it’s not going to go anywhere.

As far as I understand it, there has never been agreement regarding a species concept and probably never will be. The same applies for subspecies and varieties. There have been arguments about these from the beginning (200+ years). Anyone who believes in any of the many species concepts and shades thereof could argue that your idea is doing exactly what you claim other people are doing. Part of the reason people disagree is that different people are trying to use their species concepts for different things.

Likewise, names have constantly been changing and there have been contradicting treatments since the beginning. There is no way to reconcile this except to focus your work on a specific regional plant list from a specific date ignoring the fact that it may have a bunch of errors, that it will contradict other plant lists, and that it may not include many important taxa that should be taken into account from an ecological perspective. It is messy and has always been messy, but I would argue that things are greatly improving. The big problem is that it is going to take a lot of time and money to resolve all the questions from the past.

For a little perspective on name changes, below is a brief history of what I treat as Malacothamnus fasciculatus var. fasciculatus has been called over time. I only show years where there is a name change or two treatments are published in the same year using different names (This happened four times!). Note that each name shown may include just what I call M. fasciculatus var. fasciculatus or, in the case of lumpings, may have up to 7 additional taxa I recognize lumped into it. If you hate the name changes going on now, imagine being a botanist from 1891 to 1951.

1838 - Malva fasciculata
1849 - Malvastrum munroanum (misapplied)
1854 - Malvastrum thurberi
1891 - Malvastrum fasciculatum and Malveopsis fasciculata (different treatments)
1893 - Malveopsis fasciculata
1896 - Malvastrum fasciculatum
1897 - Malvastrum thurberi
1906 - Malacothamnus fasciculatus
1921 - Sphaeralcea fasciculata
1923 - Malvastrum thurberi
1924 - Malvastrum fasciculatum
1925 - Sphaeralcea fasciculata and Malvastrum fasciculatum var. typicum (different treatments)
1936 - Malvastrum fasciculatum and Sphaeralcea fasciculata (different treatments)
1939 - Malvastrum fasciculatum
1951 - Malvastrum fasciculatum and Malacothamnus fasciculatus var. fasciculatus (different treatments)
1993 - Malacothamnus fasciculatus
2012 - Malacothamnus fasciculatus var. fasciculatus.

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I agree, and if this “requirement” were routinely applied, I suspect most changes would be delayed sufficiently long.

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yeah that makes a lot of sense. i guess just then my question is why would iNat take a taxonomic precision approach rather than a wider accessibility approach given the audience. which cycles back to, i am not saying understanding taxonomy in more detail is harmful, just forcing it to the species level. But yeah for sure it’s always been in flux. But in the past i imagine there were more parallel taxonomies without an internet everyone is on.

If we could just roll back from the species level splitting i think we could find some balance, but the splitters seem totally unable to compromise at all which is really frustrating.

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WFO = https://xkcd.com/927/

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And the perspective of many others would be:
If we could just roll back from the species level lumping i think we could find some balance, but the lumpers seem totally unable to compromise at all which is really frustrating.

Lumpers and splitters just think about things differently. Both feel they are constantly trying to clean up the messes the others created and both feel that the others are ruining the utility of the names. With the ever-increasing lines of evidence available, they are moving closer and closer to compromise as the new evidence may clarify the guesswork of the past, but the reality of life is that it is messy and often doesn’t fit into boxes or maybe does fit into boxes but there are multiple dimensions of stretchy overlapping boxes that are not all mutually exclusive.

Regarding cryptic taxa, I’d say most aren’t truly cryptic if you take the time to learn to distinguish them. The keys may completely suck but comparing supposed cryptic taxa side by side, they often look pretty different. I have encountered only one cryptic taxon issue in my work doing rare plant surveys. There was a rare taxon that supposedly could not be distinguished from a similar common taxon in the same area without using DNA. Following the splitter taxonomy, we said that plants we found could possibly be the rare taxon and they were protected from bulldozing. Following a lumper taxonomy, the rare taxon would be considered just part of the common taxon and would have been bulldozed. Was the cryptic rare plant a subspecies or species? That of course depended on which treatment we used.

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That basically sums it up.

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Can we summarize what has been written here on the topic of the thread? This could be helpful to make curation more effective.

I’d say because it’s not iNat doing anything, it’s individual curators (or groups of curators) making decisions based on iNat’s taxonomy guidelines and recommended external sources. Since taxonomists in general are doing a lot of splitting now, and iNat doesn’t want to create its own alternate taxonomy, that means following the taxonomists’ splitting (indirectly, if we’re using secondary sources). There aren’t formal external sources for a “field biologists’ taxonomy” for basically any taxa that I’m aware of.

I mean just with my reading about dandelions I know that there isn’t any worldwide lump-preferring taxonomy for the genus for us to use, which is why we have all those frustrating discussions about them. And that’s an example where most people would prefer lumping. I would prefer a more lumpy taxonomy for Taraxacum but I also believe we need to follow the iNat guidelines, which means following whatever worldwide external taxonomy is available instead of haphazardly patching something together based on my preferences (like in that XKCD comic strip).

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I think in terms of your original post, the recommendations you made at the bottom are good.

There’s also been a bit of discussion about proposing some features into the website to somehow automatically ensure that there’s some accountability when taxon changes are made. But that would take a lot of discussion to clarify in more detail.

As things are now, we have to hope that curators are aware of the etiquette around taxon changes and follow it. The Curator Guide has this paragraph which matches the spirit of your recommendations:

Try to @ mention others to review your changes for potential errors and to discuss whether or not they’re appropriate. This is especially important if you’re changing a taxon based on a regional authority and it has observations outside that region. Curators have a lot of power to act unilaterally because sometimes it’s just hard or impossible to get others to vet your work, but we (the site staff) would prefer a more collaborative process whenever possible.

Is there anything else the guide should say related to this topic?

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i mean that would be true if there was some balance between lumping and splitting but my belief is there isn’t and splitters are on a destructive rampage. Sure, you probably disagree with that and maybe there’s no objective line between splitting and lumping that will ever exist. I hope at least i’m being heard here that to me it’s a really extreme species-level splitter push.

sadly my view is that only appears true to splitters who are ‘getting their way’ and not to anyone else. I really can’t see why the subspecies thing isn’t a good compromise. It just feels like one group steamrolling another, and not like any form of negotiation or well considered solution. No, i don’t mean splitters are malicious but who isn’t gleeful when they get their way that way? I guess it will come around to more balance at some point but i personally think a lot of damage will be done in the mean time. But what else is new? i guess it’s a smaller issue than ecosystem collapse, climate change, etc, and just something else to try to live with. It really has reduced my use of this site a lot and will probably continue to do so to a greater extent, but i suppose to some people that isn’t a bad thing either.

Yes, of course, but the thing is no one has time to go that that level of specialization for every species that might possibly occur in a monitoring area. If it’s even possible to learn them all.

Yeah, i mean this is a common complaint but it’s getting really hard to preserve biodiversity at all and people latch on to these sorts of things as reasons to tear apart the protections even more. if i were dicator for life i’d preserve all these micropopulations, species level or not. But In the end my observations are the splitter stuff is just disconnecting people from conservation in general. Over time there are less and less protections for anything at all. Using cryptic species as a mechanism for conservation isn’t something i think is sustainable or successful in the long run. But i hope i’m wrong and i am glad it worked that time.

we aren’t. That used to be the policy but now it’s a free for all.

perhaps because splitters attack every effort to create one? but maybe that’s too cynical.

yeah… that’s really hard too and i don’t have a great answer other than i see a lot of problems with what is happening now.

I don’t know. it’s probably something else i need to walk away from because it’s a lost cause and for now what i see is the lumpers, and in the long term the ecosystems, lose this round too.

The Curator Guide still says the same thing as far as I can tell. But depends whether the issue here is with primary authors, or the secondary sources, or both.

My impression is the whole process is mostly bottom-up? Although I may well be ignorant about this. Taxonomists working on their little specialty groups decide on lumps and splits that make sense within their own context. And then since they’re the trusted specialists on those groups, people making broader level decisions higher up just go with whatever those specialists said. I can’t really think of any other way it could be done at a scale of tens or hundreds of thousands of species; no top down system would have the resources to test all of them.

As a contrast I think birds have more top-down taxonomy decision-making (like I referenced above) but they’re a much more manageable-sized group than plants or insects or fungi. Flora of North America maybe tries to do that? (from my limited understanding) but it’s restricted to North America so usefulness for iNat is limited (at 20k species that’s almost twice as many as birds worldwide, but only 7% of plants worldwide)

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If you scroll back to the top - and click Top Replies - it is automagically whittled down to 20 posts for this thread. The short read version.

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There are also Requests pertaining to taxonomy curation issues:
https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/implement-automatic-delay-for-proposed-taxon-swaps/38701
https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/notify-users-of-drafted-taxon-changes/38765

(I’m in favor of both, to alleviate issues arising from overzealous/hasty/pedantic curation ops; until there is a technical way to revert disastrous moves mirrored blindly from POWO, any lossy op should require a comfortable delay - not just “24 hrs” - and mandate at least a second pair of eyes)

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Pardon me but that’s not what I exactly meant. Actually, what usually happens here is not that curators make a change on the basis of a local authority but rather the exact opposite, that is they make changes on the basis of the backbone without considering the point of view of “local authorities”/experts/published papers. In this light, what I was asking for is the necessity to take into account also these latter points of view. This can be particularly fitting for endemics and taxa that are critical from a taxonomic point of view or in those cases in which, for some reasons, the relative backbone seems not to have taken into account the most authoritative and reliable literature.

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