What can iNaturalist do to better support people of color?

Another thing that needs thinking about is whether marginalized people being paid for collecting data are being taken advantage of by having limited bargaining power. After reading everything here, that would be my main concern about “combining” iNaturalist with any other system.

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I agree that this is absolutely an issue, we run into this also with lack of diversity in the ecology field as the field has various barriers to entry and if you aren’t at least somewhat well-off it’s really hard to find your way into the field. That being said i am not sure what iNat specifically can do about this other than what it is already doing (giving away a free platform to collect data and offering ID help)… otherwise, it just turns into a generic ‘tear down the broken system’ comment which i don’t disagree with but doubt we can hash out in this thread.

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Me, too. I’m struggling to figure out what the issues in general are about group accounts–whether they would be more inclusive in general and why, and whether there are ways to have group accounts that still allow communication between all members of a group and the broader community of iNaturalists. I think the last one is just not possible with very large groups.

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There is an elephant in the room, a hidden layer of First World Problems on social media (whether it is iNat or FB or …) People on social media have leisure and disposable income beyond survival. Especially now in COVID lockdown, the marginalised who depend on casual work - can’t pay the rent, nothing to eat.

And, California based iNat did appeal for voluntary donations.

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I guess they could be more inclusive because users who do have / can afford reliable internet access could upload on behalf of others?

I think group accounts could work for smaller groups (a particular teacher’s classes, local clubs, or perhaps something larger like the reservations mentioned upthread, etc), but as you said there is probably a maximum size limitation.

It probably also is a big headache for copyright, eg. if a user wants to only use their audio, photos or Nature drawings for iNat, but the group wants to sell some images or recordings for fundraising.

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Why not bring each of these up in the topic asking how iNaturalist can improve to be more inclusive, and explain how you think each is important, and how specific changes to iNaturalist would result in it being more inclusive? I would be interested in reading your opinions on those particular issues.

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I’ve mentioned it before - the substance of these changes need to be developed in close collaboration with Black people and other marginalized communities. I’m interested in listening, learning and holding white people accountable for their structural racism. I had not considered this angle of reducing the effects of eurocentrism in science and was curious to learn more from the original poster but their post was hidden.

I also really feel strongly that organizations asking their customers or users to do the hard work of removing structural inequalities is wrong. The heavy work must be done by the organization in a publicly transparent manner with close collaboration involving the affected marginalized communities.That especially means paying Black folks for their time and emotional labor in helping your organization change.

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i’m just going to have to disagree with the idea that “the organization” must be the source of its own change. ideally the heavy work would be shared by all stakeholders, but change can come from anyone.

the standard levers you have to effect change within the system at a non-profit organization like CAS are to affect their revenues (for better or worse) or to change the minds or makeup of their board of trustees (who ultimately will hire/fire top staff, approve major policy, and reach out to their networks to get things moving). that is what will really determine whether specific initiatives will get a substantial financial support. without substantial financial support for new initiatives, most of the time, staff will be constrained in the kind of change that they can realistically achieve internally.

so if those 2 levers aren’t moving for you for whatever reason, then it’s even more important for community stakeholders who want to make significant change to really step up and help to make the change happen – outside of that standard system.

at a local park that i have ties to, there’s a running trail named after a local man – a black man, by the way – who back in the day when the park was not being maintained by the city (because of economic woes) decided to come out on his own time with his own equipment to cut the grass, pick up the trash, watch for trouble, and encourage others to love and use the park. until his recent death, that man was a board member of the conservancy that he helped to establish and also could be seen out by the running trail every day just hanging out and making sure everything was copasetic. it’s worth noting that that park is one of the most diverse in the city in its visitor base, and the conservancy’s board is also one of the most diverse racially to this day. and that didn’t happen because the man pointed at the tall grass and said somebody else has to fix this. it happened because he just did what needed to be done – he showed others what needed to be done – and others followed his leadership.

instead of simply saying that black people need to be hired, find a specific black person and make the case why that specific person needs to be hired for a specific position. you’ll be surprised how quickly exceptions can be made in hiring policies, if the right person is found for a position. or make a case for why your person might make a good fit on, say, the CAS board of trustees, where i assume unpaid trustees aren’t subject to hiring caps.

instead of simply saying that science is too Eurocentric and somebody needs to change that, describe what your vision of a non-Eurocentric iNaturalist looks like vs today, and describe a pilot project to take the first step to get there and how that can be scaled up over time. maybe offer to fund that pilot, or find a deep-pocketed aunt or company to help make the project happen, or write some grant letters, etc.

it might also help to tone down a bit on the antagonism. likening tiwane to police enforcing colonial white supremacy isn’t likely to help your cause. (frankly, i almost think you owe him an apology for that kind of remark, considering what is actually going on in the streets.) and just because you don’t get a response immediately doesn’t mean that no one’s taking action or considering your input. maybe it means that it just takes a few hours to carefully consider something within an organization. remember that the iNat staff kicked off this conversation. don’t make them regret their decision to hear the voice of the community by making every interaction one that feels bad. this process doesn’t have to feel bad to end with good results.

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California Academy of Sciences is sitting in one of the most iconic real estate locations on the planet, in an eye-poppingly expensive building. When that new building was under construction, they offered me ABOVE market rate to license a couple photos in their rainforest exhibit at a time when I was constantly getting other organizations with similar amounts of money just offering a credit line “for exposure”. Note: I could not find anything on google regarding how much rent they pay to the City of San Francisco for the location but I would be surprised to see it’s market rate. They have no Black people in their senior leadership. They have the resources to move faster with these initiatives and they have the community connections to go out and get it done without enlisting the free labor of their constituents.

Did you stop and listen to what you wrote? “don’t make them regret their decision to hear the voice of the community by making every interaction one that feels bad. this process doesn’t have to feel bad to end with good results.” Black people have dealt with this for 400 years, white people can handle feeling bad when societal anti-blackness is repeatedly brought to their attention. The feelings of white people really should not ever be a factor in whether we as a society stop killing Black people.

For what it’s worth, I don’t see anyone here as the enemy but I am frustrated that people are being so damn complacent and, well, white about things and trying to offload the work they should be doing themselves.

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It sounds like this is a broader issue with CAS? And as far as I know these elite board members aren’t too likely to read this forum. It’s an understandable point you are making, but I feel like it is kind of lost here.

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I left a post on the main CAS instagram post pointing them to the forum. I can only hope the folks at CAS who oversee iNaturalist have the presence of mind to closely oversee their units in discussions they are having on anti-blackness. I’m not on Twitter and that does seem to be the place most of the c-level folks hang out or at least have public social media profiles.

I lived in San Francisco 12 years. It’s one of the most anti-Black cities I’ve ever lived in. The lady in Pacific Heights who called the police on her neighbor chalking Black Lives Matter? She is the tiniest tip of the iceberg on entitled white people who live in San Francisco. My expectations are low right now but I’m trying.

At this point this thread for me has done what it needed to do - a discussion on why the reply from questagame was flagged. Further discussions are more in line with what iNaturalist can do to promote Black participation and I’ll be over in that thread.

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I guess my point wasn’t that we should try to get higher up CAS people to post here (which in my experience with big organizations in general would result in less not more freedoms) but rather that for that type of broader conversation you’d kind of need to go to the spaces where they are. This is me speaking just as another user not as a moderator just to be clear. How to best engage with people like that? I’m not sure.

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Also I’ve got lots of opinions on the Bay Area but over the years I’ve learned that when I go that route people just get mad at me. One of the biggest issues broadly with this culture or maybe with humans in general is that we seem to want to identify problems as “other” and reject the idea that we are acting out the same problems at home as well. But that’s probably a too broad conversation for this forum topic.

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Moderation note: I’ve moved some comments more specifically about questagame to the other thread and moved some more broadly applicable comments originally from that thread here. I also moved some replies to a new thread specifically about indigenous lands.

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Since I moved several replies around, I think this is a good point to recap the suggestions that have come in so far. We’ve tried to group them thematically and paraphrase with links back to the original comment(s).

For brevity, I’ve used the acronym BIPOC which is short for Black, Indigenous, People of Color.

Outreach

  • highlight more BIPOC in Observations of the Day/Week (pisum, eric_hunt)
  • proactively reach out to organizations working to support BIPOC in related realms (paloma, pisum, alecc, eric_hunt)
  • promote iNaturalist in indigenous communities (simono) and incorporate indigenous expertise (questagame)
  • more support for teachers/schools who may be serving BIPOC communities (pisum)
  • more local outreach (e.g. in Oakland, CA) (alecc)
  • toolkit/starter package/resources (simono)
  • work with vocational rehabilitation programs (mira_l_b)
  • directly fundraise/support outreach programs (teellbee)
  • develop a scalable model for onboarding school clubs (pisum)
  • tool lending library (pisum)
  • workshop/coding camp/hackathon with/for BIPOC (pisum)
  • add identifications and otherwise support users/areas/projects that are representing BIPOC (charlie, pisum)

Staffing

  • grow the team by hiring BIPOC for a more diverse iNat staff (eric_hunt, rupertclayton)
  • lose some current non-BIPOC staff and replace them with BIPOC to create a more diverse staff (tallastro, eric_hunt)
  • support CalAcademy’s efforts to diversify staff through hiring BIPOC (eric_hunt, rupertclayton)
  • support CalAcademy and Nat Geo in diversifying their boards (eric_hunt)

Places and Maps on iNaturalist

  • increase visibility of indigenous places and history (this is now a whole separate thread)
  • iNaturalist community members can add locally significant places as “community curated” places (pisum)

Languages

  • more web and app features to support the use of multiple languages simultaneously (jbbohan, robotpie)
  • more local language common names (note: anyone can add these one at a time from a taxon page or request a bulk addition using this template) (jbbohan, trh_blue, dhugallindsay).

iNaturalist functionality

  • design and build for lower-tech devices, low bandwidth, and poor connectivity (simono, pisum)
  • group accounts (questagame)

Spending

  • support BIPOC owned establishments/companies/vendors (pisum)

Merchandise

Philosophy

Does this capture all of the main themes so far? What others might be missing? Did I miss anything in this review? (If so, I apologize for the omission). Are there other useful ways to organize these suggestions?

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Thanks for all the feedback and for staying on topic. We believe that some of the comments here mischaracterize our policies regarding what kind of user accounts (anonymous, group, fictitious, etc.) are not permitted or discouraged but we realize that we don’t currently have a coherent statement about this complex subject posted in the FAQ. We apologize for that. We’re working on one now and hope to have it posted early next week.

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Thanks upupa-epops - I realise that requiring everyone to create an iNaturalist account seems, as you say, “fair, and the observer would be able to respond and have a conversation and the identifier from the US would probably back off (and have learned something new about Australian nudibranchs).”

Wouldn’t that be nice?

But that’s not reality. Each community has its own culture, its own biases. This iNat community is no different. It’s not easy - perhaps impossible - to see the contours of our own cultures when we’re a part of it.

“Come talk to us.” “The meeting room door is open.” “We’re here to learn from you.” “We’re open-minded.” And so forth.

But it’s still “your place, your culture” in which we’re discussing observations from “my place, my culture.”

It’s a common problem faced by indigenous communities (and people of colour in the US). It happens all the time here in our Australian institutions. (It’s especially bad in Canberra from my experience). Indigenous people are invited to discussions at some Australian gov institution, but few ever turn up, and if they do, they’re suddenly the token BIPOC person who’s supposed to speak for an entire community. I’m sure you can imagine what that’s like.

Technology, however, creates new opportunities to bridge these divisions. For example, from your iNaturalist platform, using your existing interface, you could come chat with another nature community, on THEIR OWN platform (discuss nudibranchs! :-) ). You wouldn’t need to create an account and sign in. You’d be able to join the discussion as an iNaturalist user named upupa-epops, part of an iNat group account. And visa-versa. This is entirely feasible. Tech allows this. It’s easy to do.

I hear pisum jumping in here - “we’re not a data repository like ALA and GBIF.” Neither are we and no one’s suggesting that. “QG is only interested in helping itself.” I don’t think there’s anything I can say - even the simplest thing - that’s not going to be called out as wrongly motived or “hijacking.” I’m forced to defend my perspective no matter what I say.

This is a cultural issue with iNat. It quickly becomes us-them. In fact, pisum, just to correct you earlier, the expertise engine we’ve developed is working pretty well. In fact, some categories are getting identified so quickly we’ve decided to start feeding iNat sightings into it, because we now have a surplus of experts. How is that possibly a bad thing? I think we all agree that’s a win for everyone, no? In that sense, our win is your win, so what’s the issue?

The fact is, biodiversity connects us all, and we can’t protect it without BIPOC. (See last year’s IPBES report). iNat has some great technology, some very smart people. There’s an opportunity here to open up, truly open up, and not repeat the same mistakes that we’ve made with communication systems over the last several centuries.

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i hope you’re using the data properly. i certainly wouldn’t want my data picked up and used in your system, especially since my observations and photos are all explicitly licensed CC BY-NC. it also seems like a violation of iNat’s overall terms of service to use stuff from iNat in general, again because of its noncommercial clause.

that’s all i have to say… back to the topic at hand.

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Happy Juneteenth everyone. I hope we can make it through the weekend without this thread devolving into another lecture about iNaturalist vs. Questagame. I’m eager to hear from some other voices about what iNaturalist can do to better support people of color

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i think it may be worth including commitments that iNat staff have made in previous statements, just to put those with items for consideration on one list. i didn’t go back and look at everything, but i seem to recall that you guys said that you would meet internally periodically to discuss these items and also reach out to various groups for additional guidance on this topic. i think that latter thing will be particularly important to achieve your goal here, since as far as i can tell, there hasn’t necessarily been a lot of participation / representation by disadvantaged BIPOC here.

i did a superficial scan of some existing / old threads just to see if there were things brought up in the past that are relevant here. there are some unresolved items that i mentioned over at https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/displaying-indigenous-lands-and-land-history-on-inat/13556/19.

there are also some things are closed at this point but may need a quick review to make sure the resolution is still appropriate:
https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/the-default-taxon-photo-for-homo-sapiens/5668
https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/ok-symbol-policy/6832
… there may be others relevant threads, but there are a lot of threads to sift through. hopefully others can chime in if there are other threads that contain ideas that may deserve a quick review.

i was also thinking that there are some common guidelines for the community online, but it might be useful to develop some additional guidelines or tips for when observing out in the world. this is not to say that BIPOC need to be told how to behave properly, but it might be useful to understand what some common standards are across all cultures. i don’t really have a good concept myself of what such guidelines would look like, but just for example, if outreach to a particular indigenous group is successful, and all of a sudden there are a lot of interesting observations from that group’s land, i wouldn’t necessarily want random people seeing that to assume that it would be a good thing to take a day trip to go and take a look at the cool things out there, without considering how others might view that.

a couple of other thoughts related to process. first, i sort of see this initial effort as sort of the literature review or focus group phase of a much longer effort. it may be worth defining that the expected result of this phase of the effort will be, and what future next steps might look like (including timing), just to keep expectations aligned.

second, the way my mind works, it will only ever be known for sure whether meaningful change was achieved if you can measure before and after a change. so it may be worth starting to think about what things you might want to measure and how to measure them. i recall a past thread (https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/why-is-inat-male-dominated/6533) where the question of how to measure a problem was debated in length and even attempted by an entrepreneurial community member (https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/results-from-recent-brief-survey-of-inat-users/6697).

one more thing… i wasn’t sure that i wanted to even suggest this, but i guess i am making the suggestion just as something to consider: in the framework of iNaturalist, i think most projects are based on an interest – a taxon, a place, etc. i’ve seen a few projects created that are half interest / half identity, such as the young birders project. i wonder if there’s a model or even a place for a project or grouping mechanism based solely on identity (ex. black scientists)? in some ways, that seems like it could change the nature of the community and maybe fragment it, but i wonder if some might find that sort of thing desirable and even welcoming?

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