Create searchable expertise and interest tags for identifiers and curators

Platform(s), such as mobile, website, API, other: website

URLs (aka web addresses) of any pages, if relevant: https://www.inaturalist.org/people

Description of need:
Currently, the people-page (linked to above) is quite useless, IMO. It doesn’t display any really useful information (except maybe the leaderboards which could be interesting to some) and doesn’t do the one thing which I would expect it to do: find people.
Another semi-related problem is that identifiers complain about being tagged on observations they cannot really add to much because the leaderboards on the taxon page may give other users (who have not done their due diligence) wrong impressions. Also, users have trouble sometimes with finding the right person to tag.
I think this feature could solve all of these issues.

Feature request details:

1) Identifier/Curator profiles

Allow identifiers to add a special field to their profile about their areas of expertise (multiple can be listed), that would be displayed somewhat like this:

Identifier for <taxon> in <location>

Add a similar feature for curators, maybe displayed like:

Curating/moderating <curation task> of <taxon (if relevant)> in <location/language(s)>

A few examples for what it might look like:

  • identifier for Tribe Coccinellini globally
  • identifier for Family Platypezidae in Central Europe
  • curating conservation statuses in Germany
  • curating taxonomy of polychaetes in Europe
  • moderating user content in English, German

2) Making this information searchable on the people-page

In a second step, let users search for people using this information on the people-page:

Search for <identifiers/curators> for <taxon> in <location>

and

Search for <moderators> who speak <language>

and

Search for iNaturalist Staff

etc…

Identifiers/Curators/Staff who don’t want to be tagged too much have the option to not add these fields which would make them un-searchable in this menu

Quick note that there is a substantially different, but related, feature request that addresses some of the same issues/pages:
https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/add-curator-data-to-profile-page-and-remove-all-but-top-10-20-50-curators-from-community-page/38900

1 Like

Allow identifiers to add a special field to their profile about their areas of expertise (multiple can be listed), that would be displayed somewhat like this:

Identifier for <taxon> in <location>

Something else that might be helpful would be some way of indicating the level of IDs that you typically do in an area+taxon. For example, I do a lot of superfamily/family/subfamily caterpillar IDs in the tropics because those can help point people in the right direction and I have enough info to do that, but I’m almost never going to be able to give a species-level ID. But I can do a lot of species IDs for eastern North America. So if I were setting this up for myself, I’d want to be able to do something like

Identifier for Lepidoptera in eastern North America at order to species levels
Identifier for Lepidoptera in South America at order to subfamily levels
etc.

6 Likes

Not exactly the feature you want, but this covers some of the fuctionality:

Use Explore/Observations in iNat: Click explore, set species/taxon, set location, go, and click on the identifiers tab and look at their profiles.

Attach site:inaturalist.org/people to your query using any search engine. For example, searching for “platypezidae site:inaturalist.org/people” should lead you to a very familiar profile.

2 Likes

The issue with this is that people listed as top identifiers for a species in Explore may not actually have any expertise in the species. Explore is based on observation records, not identification records, and it thus provides results for people who have ID’d observations that have a particular community ID – not people who have provided IDs of that taxon. So people who do a lot of broad IDing of observations that are later refined by experts may can quite easily end up on leaderboards for taxa they don’t know how to ID.

Obviously, yes, one can go from there to look at user profiles to see what expertise they mention, but a lot of people don’t seem to do this and profiles often only provide a very rough idea about whether the user can help with that particular taxon. (E.g., I do a lot of broad IDing for bees in Europe, and finer IDing for some bee species in some parts of Europe, but my profile doesn’t specifically indicate which ones and where because that is a level of detail that isn’t likely to be relevant to most people visiting my profile. But if there were a way to specify this on a per-taxon basis so that not have my name is not suggested as a relevant expert in places where I can’t provide finer IDs, I would use it.)

6 Likes

At very least encourage people to provide some information.

What interests you? Where?

So many profiles are blank - and I have click thru their obs for where, and obs and IDs (You don’t ID for others? That is a dead end) for their preferred taxa.

5 Likes

I like the idea behind this, but do worry a bit about how much mentioning it might lead to. If someone is the only person to list themselves for a specific taxon/location, they might get an ungodly number of mentions. That might be the case especially when this was first implemented (if that were to happen) as most users update their profiles very infrequently to never and there would only be a small proportion of users listing their expertises in their profiles. On the other hand, my perception is that the people page doesn’t get too much general use (but maybe I’m wrong on that), so perhaps the feature wouldn’t be widely known. Personally, I would be reticent to add this info to my profile and invite a mentionstorm. I already know how to find the observations that I want to ID personally, so I don’t think this feature would lead to mentions directing me positively to observations I otherwise wouldn’t have seen. And I think there’s just as much a chance of this feature increasing the mentions I do get as to decreasing them.

Another issue I might worry about is that even with this feature, it still requires users to do “due diligence” when mentioning someone. Even with this info, it will still be much easier to just tag the top three users on a leaderboard rather than click through to their profiles to check their expertise or use a people page search to find IDers. I think only “power users” would be likely to do that. One potential solution to that could be to have a way to have a more detailed profile “card” pop up for users on mouseover/hover that could include some of this info.

6 Likes

? if you do do that

  1. Are they still even active on iNat - you have to click thru to their profile to see - hasn’t been here for YEARS after a blitz thru Preferred taxon maybe for a research project? Otherwise your polite request is dead in the water.
  2. After a few replies along the lines of a random example - I only know dragonflies in Idaho. You - click thru - to fathom where, before you ask the next one.
  3. After another irate Do NOT @MENTION ME - you check first for the profile that warns you to Stay at a polite, and silent, distance.

My list of who to ask for what and where is long, and grows day by day.

1 Like

At some point there was an idea (or feature request?) to allow opting out of ‘leaderboards’.

Combine this with options to appear selectively in some leaderboards (for these taxa of choice and/or these localities of choice) - that would have been much appreciated. Anyway, that ship has sailed, there are now much pressing ‘features’ to work on.

1 Like

You raise a lot of good concerns that I hadn’t really taken into account, and I don’t have an answer that solves all of the issues. However, I think that the combination of being effectively an opt-in choice that can be opted out of again at any time, being exclusive to the website, so that app users (probably where most new users are at that aren’t yet familiar with “iNat-iquette”), and the people page being relatively obscure, would generally do much to prevent the worst.

If someone receives too many notifications, they would be able to opt out again (perhaps in addition to just not adding the fields, there could be a separate opt-out setting, that would still allow IDers to add the fields to their profile, while remaining unsearchable).
Also (and this may be very naive) for “problem taxa” (many obs, difficult/impossible to ID to species, and/or few IDers) I think that over time a balance would be reached. I think there would probably be identifiers in many cases who are perfectly happy to do the grunt work of looking at different organisms and sorting into “probably cannot be IDed further”, “this one species is actually fairly easy to distinguish”, and “interesting, let me tag some others”. (I expect that these would be done by people currently learning to identify these taxa who have already reached a certain fluency, but may not have gained familiarity with every species)
It might be better to wait with implementing this feature until measures are taken to improve the identifier:observer ratio.

These issues might perhaps be solved by an announcement/blog-post that would at least get some attention initially (the amount of comments on the genAI blog post indicates how many people do actually see them.

I like this idea a lot. I don’t know if it should be mouseover, but something like what happens when you click on a profile here on the forum would be great!

6 Likes

I am greatly sympathetic to the idea behind the request – I would be less annoyed by mentions if more of them were actually relevant, but figuring out who can help with an observation is often quite tricky. I fear that @cthawley may be correct in the assessment that the proposal in its current form might not actually solve the problems with mentioning that it is intended to address. I’m not sure what a better solution would be.

To break down the problem, there are three, or maybe four, main ways that I see mentions being used:

  • Observers who seek to solicit IDs for their observations within minutes of uploading by mentioning the top IDer or top several IDers, often using the leaderboard on the observation page rather than the leaderboard on the taxon page for their region.

  • Observers who thoughtfully ask for help from a particular IDer for an observation that is unusual, that they have tried to ID themselves, or that they know based on past interactions that the IDer is likely to be interested in.

  • Getting the attention of a user who has already interacted with the observation but may not be following it or may have unsubscribed to certain types of notifications (for example, to request that they take another look at their ID or to ask a question)

  • IDers using mentioning to collaborate with other taxon specialists (help correcting a wrong ID, getting another opinion on a tricky observation one is not sure about, etc.)

I greatly dislike the first type of mentioning – I find that most of the time the observations are ones I cannot help with because they are outside my regional or taxon expertise, or they are common species that are likely to get ID’d fairly promptly anyway, or they are not IDable because the photo quality is poor and the observer does not know what to photograph. In addition, this indiscriminate use of mentioning always feels a bit pushy to me – as though the observer is too impatient to wait for someone to look at it as part of their usual workflow (like trying to cut to the front of the line). I also wish that observers would think about what would happen if everybody did this – the people at the top of leaderboards would be even more overwhelmed with notifications than they already are. It is counterproductive in the sense that IDers don’t need help finding observations to ID; most prolific IDers already have developed a workflow to try to effectively deal with the neverending pile of observations, so unnecessary and irrelevant mentions may actually waste their time. (It also creates a rather uncomfortable dilemma for those of us who have been socialized with certain expectations about politeness: such requests force us to choose between a) being rude by ignoring mentions or declining to help, or b) trying to encourage more thoughtful @-ing and suggesting that the observer wait a week or two instead of doing so immediately, which invariably seems to be interpreted by the observer as rude and out of line no matter how gently I try to phrase it.)

So I’d like to see some mechanism that would reduce this sort of mentioning. I’ve wondered sometimes whether a daily or weekly limit to how many times one can mention other users would be useful. Perhaps this would need to be restricted to one’s own observations and only include mentions of people who have not already interacted with the observation in which they are being mentioned. I suspect something like this might not be at all feasible from a programming standpoint, however.

At the same time, the fourth type (and second) type of mentioning is useful and an important tool for collaboration, and it seems like the proposal here could potentially help with that – provided that enough people fill out their profiles, which I fear might prove a significant hurdle.

I have often enough been in a position where I am looking at bee observations and find something that I can tell is notable but either I don’t know enough to confirm it myself or I need help from additional IDers to correct it. Because we are all generally rather overwhelmed, mentioning a relevant specialist is sometimes the only way to make sure that the interesting observations don’t become lost among the many many observations that can’t realistically be ID’d past genus. And even though I know who most of our bee people are, expertise often doesn’t follow neat categories (for bee genus A, ask user X), so it can still be rather challenging to figure out who is most likely to be able to help with any given observation, particularly given the limitations of the leaderboards outlined above. So something that would facilitate matching IDers to observations would be helpful. It isn’t about speed per se, but about reducing the guesswork and not having to click through dozens of observations to see who actually provided an ID for that species instead of a broader ID for the observation. I don’t know, maybe profiles aren’t the way to address this, and what would help instead would be a filter in the interface that would make it possible to find people who have made a particular ID that doesn’t involve looking up the relevant text snippet for URL manipulation and the taxon ID every single time.

3 Likes

For identifiers that have ID guides or can link to relevant publicly available guides made by others, it would be nice to say something like “Please only tag me after you have consulted the following resources” and then list them. There are lots of great guides out there, but they can be difficult to find. And people should attempt to use them before tagging identifiers. Pointing people in the right direction that way may reduce tagging and create more identifiers.

4 Likes

I will quietly ignore pushy @mentions (especially if they make a habit of yelling ME, ME!) Being polite to them, doesn’t mean that you cannot decide whether or not to ID this obs.

Please @mention one identifier at a time, and wait a bit before asking the next one.

And if irritated enough, Mark as Reviewed, and silently move on.

Ignoring requests is nevertheless something that we are often socialized to feel is rude, even if the requests themselves are unsolicited and unwanted. So no matter how we respond or do not respond it is easy to feel like we are the bad guy for not enthusiastically IDing every observation on which we are mentioned.

And even if I ignore requests, they still generate notifications and short of ignoring notifications altogether this means they take up time which I could be using for other things, such as actually IDing observations.

A strategy that would reduce the number of irrelevant mentions from being made in the first place would be a better solution for all concerned.

Sent to Coventry. Quietly and politely ignored - is an active and effective strategy both on iNat and in the forum. Which obs or comment gets engagement? And which is treated like a pothole and, carefully, avoided. Polite works while the other side plays by the same (polite) rules.

If it is a particular individual you can mute them.

I updated the topic title to an “action”, so instead of “Identifier and curator profiles, and a better people-page” it now reads “Create searchable expertise and interest tags for identifiers and curators”. Feel free to revise.

3 Likes

You are missing my point. Irrelevant mentions waste my time regardless of whether I respond to them – unless I decide to just ignore all notifications, I have to look at the notification/observation in which I was tagged to see whether it is relevant or not. It doesn’t matter whether the irrelevant mentions are the result of individual users who massively abuse the function or a constant trickle of mentions from a changing selection of users hoping that this will get their observations seen. “Just ignore them and don’t get fussed about it” doesn’t address the cause of the problem – irrelevant mentions leave everyone unhappy: the IDer ends up annoyed, the observer disappointed and frustrated.

In e-mail we have spam folders and filters that we can tweak to identify those messages that we will likely want to see (certain keywords/types of content, “safe list” for messages from certain addresses, etc.). Short of such a function on iNat, which I suppose would fall under the “notifications revamp” that we are not allowed to request, the only other way to tackle the matter, as far as I can tell, would be to deal with them at the source (i.e., by reducing the number of irrelevant mentions made in the first place).

In line with the spirit of the feature requested here, I am trying to figure out if there is some strategy besides the specific ideas outlined in the original proposal that would benefit everyone by reducing unnecessary mentions and/or increasing the percentage of mentions that are relevant (“relevant” meaning that I have the local and taxon expertise to help and – ideally – cases where I might not see the observation/discussion otherwise).

2 Likes