That’s my point exactly. They are not being up front about that their choice was and what they’re continuing to choose to do. They are very into pride but don’t seem to have pride about pride. I can understand wanting to protect staff but they did it everywhere, including places where I don’t think there was an overwhelming concern about violence towards staff members. They really just immediately caved, exactly as you said.
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I hid two new posts about using “it” as a pronoun because it’s a discussion that’s already been had above and staff came to the conclusion that stating that one won’t use someone’s pronouns is not appropriate.
I understand this thread has been contentious of late, and I’m hoping it can move forward to more constructive conversation.
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I really screwed up on my comments on this thread. I’m sorry I was not more gentle with a person who is obviously hurting badly (for reasons that extend long before my comment). I’m also sorry that I wrote in ways that made it easy to assume I meant what I did not.
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It seems so weird to ask someone that. I don’t know why anyone would care what’s in a person’s pants.
Why does it? I feel like most people would know not to ask such personal things, to a transgender person or otherwise.
Edit: I know this is supposed to be a thread about LGBTQ+ naturalists and nature, and I can remove my post if needed. I am genuinely curious though, as to why people ask trans ppl personal questions about their physical anatomy.
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they are nosy and rude, and either can’t be bothered to understand why it is wrong or are actively malicious. There’s so much anti-trans rhetoric out there, that people believe truly awful things. Or some are fixated on it for other reasons…
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yeah, pretty much.
I’ve been relatively lucky so far because I don’t “look trans”, but it is concerning that the immediate response, especially from family members, tends to be “OMG does that mean you’re gonna points at crotch do THe SUrgEry”… and I have several friends who, when entering the restroom, have been asked to “prove” that they’re a “real X”, which, boiled down, often means “prove to me right now that you’ve got a d-- / v-- or I’ll scream at you and/or assault you”.
it’s a minority, but they’re very loud. furthermore, the consequences can be enormous if they decide to get violent. I sometimes try going into the mens’ if the place is abandoned and I’m in a queer-friendly locale. But in my conservative hometown? I’ll hold it in, thanks.
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It’s fascinating (in a bad way. In a way where it boggles the mind and makes no sense.) how completely immoral people can be towards other people who they perceive as incorrect and/or less than. Especially when those people are usually doing nothing wrong or imposing at all. And somehow the antagonist is the victim in their mind at the end of it, even though a lot of the time they go out of their way to provoke an argument or incite an actual attack on other people.
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So this is going to be political, but like, to be LGBTQ is inherently political, especially right now, so no one get too upset with me XD Also I’m not calling out anyone specifically and if you (general you) as a person feel called out by anything I say, I would encourage you to self reflect and think about why you’re feeling that way.
Its about control, right? There are people in power, at any given time in history, that want to maintain that control, or access to money, or fame, or property, or power… whatever. You get the point. People that fit the mold of what is Expected and Right are the ideal and everyone that doesn’t fit that mold is Other. Now this changes from country to country, and time period to time period, but as I’m a person that lives in the USA, mostly what I see is a culture that is very eurocentric, patriarchal, christian, capitalist, and white society. Of course that doesn’t encompass the entire population, but that is who holds power, and there are some people extremely intent on keeping it that way. (bear with me, I’m going somewhere with this)
And so they a couple things. To them there is an in group, and an out group, and you want to be in the in group, but you don’t want to be in the out group. The outgroup is strung up on a pillory and blamed for the all the evils of the world, both for the in group to point to someone to feel better than and to give leadership a way to control their flock through fear of the outsiders, the scary, the unknown.During the early industrial era in the US it was Irish & Italian immigrants, in the holocaust it was Jews and Roma and LGBTQ, 60s it was hippies & the black panthers, in the 80s it was satanic panic, in the 90s it was the AIDs crisis and the the LGBTQ movement, and now its anti-trans bigotry with a heavy dose of racism directed at immigrants (there are also other marginalized groups that have been, and continue to be vilified in this country, I’m not trying to leave anyone out but I mean, entire books have been written on this sort of thing.) Oh and anti-CRT shit, because of course they hate actual education.
Not a single one of these groups is deserving of the hate they received and continue to receive, but that’s not the point. The point is control, and the easiest way to control people is make them afraid.
And notice how I put Irish & Italian in there - they aren’t considered in the outgroup anymore, they’ve been accepted in the general acceptable european umbrella, but you better believe that I think about how I grew up around my relatives that did have to deal with that bigotry. My great grandma was born in Sicily in the 1800s and lived to be 101 and I regret that I was too young when she passed to ask her more about what she experienced in her life.
Like, I’ve seen this shift fucking happen. I remember sitting in high school actively ARGUING with people that gay marriage should be legalized and other kids legitimately saying that ‘well, they shouldn’t do that because its a slippery slope to pedophilia and bestiality’ when like… no it never was, and my brain clocked that shit for the garbage strawman argument it was before I even really knew what a logically fallacious argument was.
And bathrooms? No one gave a rats ass fifteen years ago what bathroom you used. I’d use the dude’s bathroom all the time after band practice or theater, because there were way more girls than dudes and look, sometimes you don’t want to wait in that line when there’s only two stalls. But that’s the new talking point, and now everyone is terrified that the SCARY TRANS ARE GONNA GETCHA even though like… no. no they’re not. They’re just people that want to use a toilet.
But now, anti trans bills are being passed in droves, and not only are they being used to heavily discriminate against the LGBTQ community, but its also being used to continue to marginalize women and police their bodies and identities if they don’t fulfill the perfect expectation of a good christian woman.
These people don’t care about hurting others, they just care about control and holding on to power, and they’ll hurt anyone if it means they attain those goals.
(This was rambly. I apologize, I swear, I could have gone on further)
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Hey all. A lot of important things have been said here in the past week - so much so that I forgot what this thread was actually made for when we started it in 2021:
The iNaturalist Forum has a pretty narrow focus: iNaturalist, and some related nature topics. So we made this topic specifically for members of the LGBTQIA+ community (and allies) to introduce themselves and discuss their experiences with queerness, iNat, and nature - sort of as an extension to that original blog post and as a way for people to find each other.
(So far, nearly 5k people have joined the LGBTQ+ Naturalists project!)
A lot of people were brave and open enough to share their experiences, and it was great to see the support people were giving and receiving. As well as lots of discussion about queerness in the non-human world. 
But it’s gotten off-track of late, and as the staff member who oversees the Forum it’s my fault for not keeping things hewing close to the original purpose of this thread. I apologize for that.
There are many places online to discuss broader LGBTQIA+ issues, and you can message other users directly if you feel the need to (but keep in mind that the Community Guidelines extend to private messages, and admins will investigate flagged messages) so let’s keep this one focused on its original aim. Posts made after this post that attempt to steer it into other territory will be hidden and the user will be asked to edit it.
If you want to get more actively involved in these issues in a political manner, there are many advocacy groups you can reach out to.
Thanks, and enjoy Pride Month!
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Turned off slow mode. Sorry I didn’t do that earlier, everyone.
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Don’t know why it didn’t occur to me before to include honorifics in the conversation. I guess because for me the preferred honorific discussion and preferred pronoun discussion never came up with the same people. The trans people I know (IRL) are close friends and a child of a friend that I don’t use honorifics with. The discussion of honorifics has been in a professional capacity mainly with ciswomen (Miss/Ms/Mrs/Dr). I have met women with PhDs that do NOT want to be called Dr.
My preferred honorifics and pronouns are Ms/she/her
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One of my favorite podcasts, an archaeology podcast, has LGBT+ hosts. They have a pride themed design with the color stripes as stratigraphic layers. This is their newer design with includes trans colors: https://the-dirt-shirt-store.myspreadshop.com/pride+2021?idea=60b64a7996e7c070519d8467
I bought their older design on a shirt and a sticker for my water bottle:
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Wanted to pop in and wish all of you a happy Pride Month!
Whether or not you identify as within the LGBTQIA+, it’s important to remind all of you that you’re welcome and appreciated here for what you all do.
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I’m glad to live in a time when we can create a discussion around queerness etc.!
I’d like to acknowledge the people who don’t feel safe to speak out online with simple expressions of gratitude and solidarity for their own community. As far as we’ve come, there is still fear. As we speak here, my mind goes to the queer people of Florida (cuz that’s where I live) who are risking their lives just to exist. It absolutely sucks that some people have to obscure their observations’ locations and hide their identities on this platform. It sucks we can’t be ourselves to the fullest extent without fear of unsolicited danger.
With that said, iNaturalist is a welcome place for you even if you have to stay under the radar! We’re here to help you weather the storm.
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This forum is not an appropriate place for me, but I am sure many less political people will find it helpful. Happy Pride.
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2 posts were merged into an existing topic: Moderation decisions about several posts in the LGBTQIA+ Thread
I wanted that suit too!! It seemed so supportive (fabric wise) and a bit more modest than the typical fare :(
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This thread has turned a bit controversial.
It is hard to know how I feel about all the posts, mostly because I think (or maybe I want to think) that most people are trying their hardest to be respectful, so I don’t want to get too mad at someone, especially since misunderstandings happen easily on the internet. Maybe it’s just hard to tell the intent of someone without knowing them and talking to them face-to-face. People have strong emotions and feelings about this topic.
I do know that being misgendered is not pleasent. When I (a cis-gender person) was a young tween, I got a pixie cut and loved it. A lot of my favorite Studio Ghibli characters had short hair, and I wanted mine like that too. I got called a boy a lot and it annoyed me so much. (nothing wrong with he/him pronouns, but they aren’t what I choose to go by, so it upset me. One person was a little kid, so I guess they didn’t know any better) I have not been misgendered a lot, but I do know how it feels, and I can imagine it’s harder for others who have it happen to them more frequently.
Intentionally misgendering someone is bullying. Because when someone asks you not to do a thing to them, and you do it anyway, that is bullying. verbally or physically, bullying hurts, and I don’t think that hurting people is the intention of this thread.
I myself have misgendered people before, and I think it’s just going to happen sometimes when you meet new people. People just don’t think sometimes, and stumble with words. It’s embarrassing, but then it’s your job to decide what to do next when corrected or told straightforeward that you were being rude. In my experience, if one of my friends corrects someone about their pronouns, the person apologizes, and my friends tell them it’s alright and we move on with the conversation. Maybe sometimes it’s best, when apologizing to someone, not to get too wordy or ramble on. Hopefully I make sense. @User-Deletion-In-Progress does a better job explaining a lot of this, basically:
I am glad that iNatters are able to bond over similarities, and I am glad that there are so many projects for different people. I am glad to learn how I can be more respectful too. Thank you to @User-Deletion-In-Progress and @astra_the_dragon for your well written posts. Neopronouns and their pronunciations have confused me for a bit, someone wrote how to pronounce them and use them, I can’t find that post but thank you for that! I certainly learned a lot from that post especially :-)
No-one deserves abusive words. @nonbinary-naturalist, I am so sorry you had to deal with that, and be told that by so many people, especially the adults that are supposed to guide and encourage children. I am glad you found the pronouns you like, and I hope you have found people who love and accept you for who you are. Everyone deserves respect and acception, no matter what.
On using it/its, I can understand not wanting to be rude by using it, and I understand that people use those pronouns in a derogatory way sometimes. And I understand that for older people it’s hard to get out of that mindset, and many other mindets that are so ingrained. However, like @nonbinary-naturalist put it, it can be worse refusing to use the prefered set of pronouns a person has, even if you do mean well:
Hopefully I wrote this post in a way that was respectful to everyone, and especially the naturalists I tagged. If I mis-interpreted anything I quoted from you, let me know, please. Again, everyone’s always learning, and everyone’s at least a bit socially awkward. I know I can be!
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Hi there, and thank you for your thoughts. I do want to note that we are trying to steer the conversation in another direction for now, since that sub-conversation has been pretty thoroughly covered.
I’ve been enjoying the blog posts from @tiwane covering LGBTQ iNatters. It’s a pleasant surprise to find out that people I’ve seen out and about identifying and observing are also members of the queer community!
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Thanks for telling me, I did not know that.
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