Plant Phenology annotation values

General
21

Leaving annotation blank doesn’t help it. And I never said it’s all about annotating life stage, I said it’s one of the use. Observation fields have little sence in thousands of plants not having them, so while we have only those choices for annotations which we have now it is the choice. Maybe if the one “no evidence of flowering” could be explained properly it would be a choice too, but now choosing it means you can’t choose fruiting, so it means empty pod is an evidence of flowering, so it can’t be chosen.

22

No, it’s not about life stage at all. It’s about phenology only. If you assign to it whatever meaning suits you, annotations become useless. They would not convey any information anymore because their meaning becomes undefined. Your interpretation of their meaning is contradictory to the self explanatory name of the annotation “Plant Phenology” and to the definition in the tooltip, too.

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23

I was thinking about building (or using an existing) ontology for the purposes of annotations. I don’t know if it’s been discussed already? It would be very helpful. It can also make annotations hierarchical, i.e. if I annotate an observation as providing evidence for “predation” (of specific species) I could later find it with a more general search like “interaction” (with that specific species or higher taxon) for example. Where “predation” would be a subclass of “interaction”. But this is getting a bit off topic I guess…

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24

Phenology helps you understand life stage, that’s all I talk about, I don’t know what you mean by my interpretation while I’m talking about different things. Having an annotation is better than not, and pods are evidence of fruiting, and after that you can do anything you want with this information. Not having it gives you nothing.

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25

Thanks. I’m a new user and still learning about the system. I see that Observation Fields is a very mixed bag and not a good basis for generating statistics. The Plant Phenology Annotation is more useful but I think the definitions and protocols around using it need to be improved. I find it hard sometimes to be consistent and there are issues that are appearing in this discussion, for example, does phenology refer to annual cycle stage or life cycle stage?

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26

So how do I find and fix past errors? Not so long ago, the label was “Budding,” not “Flower Budding,” so I was applying it to plants that were swelling or just breaking their leaf or stem buds. A common name for that stage is “budding out,” so that made sense, and if the tooltip made the distinction I did not see it.

I’d like to find all the observations for which I added annotations for budding, check to see whether only leaf or stem buds were involved, and, if so, correct them. Is there an easy way to do that?

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27

Excellent point. On many plants, the peduncle remains attached until just before the next season’s growth begins, regardless of whether fruits remain. On a few, the peduncle remains attached even longer. So is an attached but fruitless peduncle in itself “evidence of flowering”? It would seem so, but if anyone assumes that it is:

  • Because there is no option for that condition, there is no way to distinguish it from an observation lacking annotation.
  • It becomes impossible to distinguish species by their bloom cycle. Although it is not a perfect way to do so, I have cleaned up a substantial number of misidentifications based on the fact that they were blooming at the wrong time for the species identified.
  • The annotation is no longer a gauge of whether the plant is currently providing pollen, nectar, or fruit, each of which could be food for wildlife—albeit the fruit not so much until it is ripe.

Maybe “No evidence of flowering” should instead be “No flower buds, flowers, or fruit”?

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28

This may have already been explained, but if a plant is flowering, budding, and fruiting on the same individual, you can select all three at once, or two as the case may be. Some Bush Lupine do this, where you have anywhere from flower buds on an inflorescence, to fruit on another.

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29

That option is clear, but the question is whether there is any correct choice when the only thing visible is an empty bloom stalk, which on some species could be two or more seasons old. This photo of a beargrass (Nolina spp.) illustrates the issue. Its dried stalk bears no fruit, flower, or flower buds, so those aren’t appropriate, but the stalk is evidence that there were flowers at some time in the past, so “no evidence of flowering” isn’t appropriate, either. :thinking:

In that instance, do we just leave Phenology alone? Or is “no evidence of flowering” really meant to say “no flowers, buds, or fruit”? If so, then it should be “no flowers, buds, or fruit,” because I would know to check that when the only thing present was an empty bloom stalk.

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30

Yes, that was the original quandary that motivated me to start this thread. When confronted with a plant with no current buds, flowers or fruit but which bears a dead inflorescence stalk or an empty fruit capsule, it seems to me that the annotation “no evidence of flowering” does not apply. There is very clear evidence. So I don’t click any annotation value.

But this means iNat receives no information from this observation about the plant’s seasonality. That’s a shame.

I would support changing the wording of this annotation value, to make it clearer what is wanted - perhaps “no current buds, flowers or fruit”.

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31

I suppose it is subjective, somewhat. I would not consider an old flower stalk fruiting or flowering. I understand that a stalk had a flower at one time, but I take flower budding, flowering, or fruiting to be an active process. I consider this stalk post-fruiting.

It could be subjective to say if there was actual fruit that has yet to be dispersed, then that is still fruiting, but on the other hand, as mentioned, these fruit could persist for a long time until seed dispersal occurs.

I think what we are trying to annotate is if the plant 1) has one or more flower buds that will in theory reach anthesis, 2) has reached anthesis 3) is pollinated and thus is now fertilized and is now fruiting. This can progress until there is a fleshy or desiccated fruit. I suppose this is still “fruiting” but might better be considered post-fruiting, seed dispersal phase.

I think it is OK because if most people get it correct most of the time, the pattern will emerge as to when the plant buds, flowers, and fruits in a particular location.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthesis

And sure, perhaps it should say no evidence of flowers nor fruit.

32

I’m finding that in general, not as many plants are having photos taken of them when they are in a purely vegetative state. I understand that when a plant has a showy flower, we are all more likely to take the photo! They are beautiful! But, we need more photos of these plants when they are not flowering. Also, when they are flowering, it is nice to see the whole plant and the leaves in addition to the pretty flowers.

So, a plea to everyone, especially if you annotate, try to get photos of plants when they germinate, and when they have no buds, flowers, or fruit. We need more photos of fruit for many plants, actually. You understand what I mean. I ask because these photos could be very helpful for future identifications, and if we annotate, provide a more accurate graph of flowering, fruiting, and none at all.

Thanks!

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33

That’s what we’ve been doing this spring.) To get high numbers of speies you have to photograph everything you find.

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34

Bioblitz held in April is our autumn and our nature reserves were very grateful for pictures of plants WITHOUT flowers.
But that was last year.

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35

There is a lot of photography of plants in a purely vegetative state (seedlings, resprouting) going on in Australia at the moment with numerous projects documenting recovery following our devastating bushfires. eg.
https://inaturalist.ala.org.au/projects/environment-recovery-project-australian-bushfires-2019-2020

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36

I’m doing my best, following specific plants from when I first see them through fruiting and seen dispersal.

  1. Redwhisker Clammyweed:
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/46348013
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/46809451
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/47063512

  2. Milk Thistle:
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/41504476
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/42644676
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/43037199
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/45567760
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/46350063

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37

Just want to say, Silybum marianum is one of my favourites, and I was eagerly watching them grow, flower, fruit, and wither over the course of the rainy and early dry seasons. I commend you for having the patience to document them!

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38

Here is some information from the USA National Phenology Network
https://www.usanpn.org

phenophase: “An observable stage or phase in the annual life cycle of a plant or animal that can be defined by a start and end point. (Note: The definition of the term “phenophase” has not yet been standardized and varies among scientists.)”

Phenophase ID: 500

Phenophase Name: Flowers or Flower Buds

Phenophase Definition: One or more fresh open or unopened flowers or flower buds are visible on the plant. Include flower buds that are still developing, but do not include wilted or dried flowers.

Phenophase ID: 516

Phenophase Name: Fruits*

Phenophase Definition: One or more fruits are visible on the plant

*the ovary swelling is an indication that fertilization has occurred, and the ovary, now called a fruit, is developing
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39

So I just came on the forum, to make my first post

Why?

I have been trying very hard lately to label my observations with proper annotations but realized there didn’t appear to be a set of definition for each annotation value.

specifically what constitutes fruiting?

I realize it’s been talked about a lot above, but where I’m specifically uncertain is, whether a plant which currently has seeds upon it should be considered “fruiting”.

2 Examples:

  1. This (currently unknown grass) observation from today: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/58293431

  2. This observation of Swamp Rose Mallow which has finished flowering, but it still has seed heads: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/58280684

In both of these examples I labeled them as “Fruiting”, however as I said earlier I am questioning this. How would you label these? Should there be a separate annotations for seeds? Should the field “Fruiting” be renamed to something like “Fruiting or Seeding”

I have a recently earned B.S. in environmental science, but I am certainly no expert on taxonomy, and its been 6 years or so since I covered the basics of plant biology so forgive me if I have missed something critical here.

I would love to here y’alls thoughts on this!

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40

Both are fruiting, as long as the plant stops flowering you can call it so, as fruits start developing. I can’t answer about fruiting as in Russian version the word can be applied both to fruits and seeds.

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