I usually work with reptiles but was sub-contracted to do a few short bee surveys. Part of my contract requires me to photograph the bees from different angles and upload them to iNat, presumably to act as a backup for location/observation data (I could be wrong and it is ultimately not my concern why, I just do what I am paid to do).
There is a user who keeps leaving somewhat snarky comments and demands on our uploads, seemingly because they are upset that there are too many photos and that they are unable to see all id features in the first photo. It would appear they are part of a crowd of people who prefers to breeze through id’s by using only the first photo.
I have explained multiple times in comments and through 3 separate messages that we are not paid to organise the photos per his requirements, and that he is welcome to politely explain what would be helpful for his personal needs. He has responded by calling the observations “clutter”, accusing us of profiting from his volunteer work, and continuing to send messages despite being asked to cease doing so. He appears to be a leading member of the “bee world” and so maybe is not used to getting push back.
I typically would handle such requests like this: “hey! Thanks for contributing. In the future, it makes our job providing identification easier if the first photo shows [insert key id feature here]. If you could do that in the future I can more easily help provide id’s for you!”
I respect this person’s standing and appreciate their id’s but I also expect them to communicate in a professional and courteous manner. Any advice would be appreciated.
You’ve taken the reasonable first step. You’ve asked this person to stop. Now it’s a good idea to contact the help desk for further help. Or just ignore this person, if you can. He’s not helping.
Something I’ve learned on inat is that many power users can sound rude, or short, but I think it may be a product of quick use of the site. While your scripted responce is very nice, a short responce is much easier to type out a hundred times.
Granted, ctrl+V is also easy, but requires keeping the template handy. Not to downplay your feelings! Just another perspective.
Thanks! I can understand that perspective. At the end of the day I like to focus on the fact that we’re all just human beings trying to contribute, and we should address each other as such. The example I posted is certainly not a scripted response, it is the way I try to communicate so that I can show people the respect they deserve. I appreciate time constraints, certainly, but if it only take a few extra seconds to be respectful, I expect people to do so, as it’s the same courtesy I would give them.
Can I just ask what you’re hoping to get out of posting these bee photos to inaturalist? If it’s just because you’re required to – “presumably to act as a backup for location/observation data” – then that’s actually not really the point of the site. Inat is a biodiversity database of sorts, but it’s just as much if not more so a social network. And part of that is other people interacting with your observations.
Obviously everyone should be polite and if you ask a user to stop interacting with you they should, and the “power user” in question is certainly prone to short and somewhat snippy comments. But to be honest, after looking through your bee observations I can understand why someone IDing a lot of them might start to get a little annoyed.
Being short is ok, being disrespectful is not. I recently reviewed 4,000 obs to correct them consistent with a new taxonomic revision, 5 extra seconds on each observation would have added 5.5 hours to the project. This is why you might get short blunt responses, especially from people doing large numbers of IDs, but that is very different from being actively disrespectful. (and I personally welcome questions even if I am doing mass IDs, I just don’t comment on all 4,000 for the 20 people who are actually going to ask me about the ID)
Being short does not excuse being actively disrespectful, there is a difference between not taking the time to type “please” and typing something hostile or insulting.
This forum is not meant to discuss specific user conduct issues, if you think someone is behaving antagonistically you should flag the antagonistic comment, and curators will see the flag and try to address the issue (speaking as a curator myself)
Hi! I appreciate your advice. What I am “hoping to get” is to fulfill the requirements set out in the contract I was given. There reasons for requiring this are beyond me and I could be totally off the mark when I guessed why.
As for the user being annoyed, that is ultimately their problem. The photos are clear and show all id features which is per the guidelines. I have already expressed that if they can be professional and politely explain what would help them, I am willing to try to accommodate.
Wow 4000! That’s great. I can understand how even a few seconds would add up over time. I personally wouldn’t even know where to find the time to curate so many observations but you’ve inspired me to start trying.
Thanks for explaining the purpose of the forum. I wasn’t sure what to do or where to go honestly, and you folks have provided some great advice on what avenues to pursue. To that end I’ve marked the topic as “answered” and will follow up on the recommended pathways.
I see. It seems like the main issue here is their specific wording, rather than the overall intent, so on that I’ll just echo insectobserver123 and say that any particularly offensive comments can be flagged on the site itself.
But my general point was that one potential result of posting your photos on inat is that a variety of people will interact with them. Including non-native English speakers whose words may come across in ways they didn’t intend, and those simply not inclined to the level of politeness you expect.
Thanks! You do this over many days, 4K in a day or a couple days would be exhausting and possibly cause wrist injury (my wrist is still a bit sore from doing 600 the last morning of the project)
This is honestly not how I normally ID, but there was a taxon (Monomorium carbonarium group) that I was interested in and no one else was curating that had been completely revised, so I wanted to fix it, and made some interesting discoveries in the proccess
@jfmantis – I personally think that this is a fine use of iNaturalist, as long as the observations meet iNaturalist’s basic criteria (correct date and place, no copyright violation, at least some hope that the photos can be ID’d). We post observations on iNaturalist for lots of different reasons, and that’s OK.
The issue is absolutely with their intent, which is to demand that things are done the way they want. In this case the user and I share the same first language, and I don’t have to tolerate their (lack of) inclination towards respectful conversation. The unfortunate nature of many sciences is that people in high positions who have been around for a few decades can sometimes act like they’re above such inclinations. I appreciate your advice!
It is reasonable to want users to have the most representative (i.e. the standard angle or best photo) first in the observation photo order. This is because the first photo becomes the thumbnail and the “banner” for that observation, and represents it in various parts of the site and when exported to databases. It’s common practice and a good habit to have.
Identifiers often skim through hundreds or thousands of observations a day, so being able to quickly evaluate if something is identifiable by using the first photo as a guess or judgement is common.
That said, no one can force you to abide by this “etiquette” guideline.
If this is the user I am thinking of, they have a long, long history of being rude, dismissive, entitled, elitist and combative, and generally ignore any feedback on this, often replying with a challenge that whoever is trying to moderate them has no standing because they have not done as many IDs as them.
In my opinion your chances of seeing any action here are slim to none, if prior history is any guide. I suggest blocking this person, with the proviso that your bee IDs won’t be coming as fast as they otherwise would. Otherwise they will continue to regularly leave terse comments and occasionally belittle you for not somehow knowing how they prefer for you to do things.
I find the way this user is permitted to continue with this (IMO) appalling pattern of behaviour year after year one of the most disappointing aspects of iNat.