Reasons why i think it may not be smart anymore for European Citizens to use iNaturalist:
The CLOUD Act allows U.S. law enforcement to compel U.S.-based tech companies to provide (highly sensitive) data regardless of where the data is stored, including servers in other countries.
FISA Section 702 authorizes U.S. intelligence agencies to collect foreign intelligence information by targeting non‑U.S. persons located outside the United States.
Data can be obtained from electronic communication service providers. If a European user’s data is stored, transmitted, or processed by a service with any U.S. legal connection, it can be swept into U.S. surveillance programs.
Even though GDPR (EU) is one of the strongest privacy laws in the world, it cannot stop U.S. agencies from compelling American companies to share EU data.
European citizens also lack meaningful legal remedies in the U.S. system, meaning they often cannot find out what data was accessed, why, or how it will be used.
the current US-Gov may be aiming to change into something very bad –> it seems like it won’t end in a good way. Now it’s mostly against US-Citizens, but Mr. T just started to see foreign democratic countries (inkluding EU) as his enemies.
What iNaturalist Data is very sensitive:
Observation-metadata like exact coordinates and time is stored on servers, even if the geoprivacy is “obscured” or “private”. –> it’s very easy to create a habit profile by interpolation and logic, so they can find out exactly where you live, where and when you go for a walk, where you go on vacation. We experimentally tried that with a random user who has only 500 “public” observations: with additional help of google maps and social media we easily found out his real name, his job & it’s location, his home, his parents home, his extremely sensitive type of vacation and it’s vacation house (i won’t tell you more about this).
even if you obscure everything and try to be anonymous, the US-Gov can combine the data with Social Media- & US-AI (ChatGPT, Gemini, …) collected data to know that this “anonymous” account is yours.
our previously uploaded data surely is stored somewhere in the internet forever, so we won’t get in control of those again.
!!! I spent thousands of hours uploading about 10000 observations to iNaturalist and i loved it so much - i am even donating money, but all this is so concerning that i think about quitting sadly…
Yes, i know that with Palantir, Albedo-Space and many more, AI- & Satellite- mass surveillance is getting more and more powerful and we are safe nowhere. But maybe it would be a tiny little bit safer for me not to donate my sensitive data directly to the evil gov.
Final questions to the users and the staff:
Is there something the users or iNaturalist can do about this all? for example transferring the organisation and servers and everything to the EU, Canada, Australia, …
And please tell me that i am wrong about all this.
EDIT: i don’t want to discuss politics - it’s just about the data safety and your opinion on that, and especially the iNaturalist staff view on that topic
So, technically, this is a risk regardless of where the data is.
while the US’s privacy protections aren’t great, I am open to hearing about which countries would make people feel better because, given current global conditions, the number is dwindling.
there is also a potentially massive cost associated with server moving because presently, server storage is provided as an in-kind donation from Amazon Web services.
I understand that. But there’s a difference between privacy protections (in terms of what businesses can collect on consumers), and what the government can collect or not re private citizens. You need both sets of protections. It just so happens we have a bunch of tech people who want to run the government here - including one notable one who isn’t even from here but I digress.
Also, we’ve got layers in the US in terms of states and the federal government, and some data can’t just be handed over to the feds without a fight. Example: there are states actively fighting the federal government trying to get a hold of voting data.
I ain’t saying it’s great here presently on the federal level and in certain states. But my point is still that there are not a lot of options in terms of where to store the massive amounts of data that iNat has (1) at minimal cost to iNat (2) and that balances privacy and government interference protection. iNat is based in California.
I would also add that the US is also paying the environmental price for having data centers in the first place.
Response to OP: Well, I’d say it’s really simple: if you want to be anonymous, CLOSE YOUR ACCOUNT !
…And don’t publish anything on the web, ever… and stop using a computer or a smartphone… or a credit card for that matter. I would also advise you against having an ID or a bank account…
So maybe we can be a bit more moderate now? Yes, the powers that be can track you, anywhere, anytime… So what? What has this to do with what we do here ?
And I hate the idea of publishing with an obscured location. In my eyes it amounts to saying, “I have seen this, and I want the world to know, but I do not want ANYONE to know were that was…”
While I do not feel qualified or entitled to provide anyone with advice regarding this issue, I am noting here that I am in the US, and have no intention to stop using iNaturalist despite whatever risks might or might not exist.
–> yes. maybe that will happen after some more people answer to my forum post. Thank you for your honest opinion on that.
the powers that be can track you, anywhere, anytime
–> technically they can, but somehow i trust the EU Gov that they are actually not doing that. And i believe that Mr. T’s US Gov definetly does.
So what? What has this to do with what we do here ?
–> we are uploading observations with additional sensitive personal data to push environmental researches. and i fear that my life could be in danger because of this. that’s the connection.
Sebwen, I am sorry, I certainly do not want or mean to belittle your thoughts or your fears but in truthfulness I think you are greatly exaggerating any potential risks and as for fearing for your life, I think that is not even a remote possibility unless you are heavily involved in terrorist or insurrectional circles regarding the current POS.
Respectfully, I am struggling to understand this. There are people in countries around the world that are actively advocating for their communities against big corporations whose lives are indeed in danger, and some who have been killed over the decades for this - in Central and South America, in Africa, etc. They didn’t stop what they were doing bc of fear.
As someone in the US, my risk is different than yours in Europe. I am struggling to grasp the all or nothing aspect of your fear.
I don’t think being in Europe stops the US government from tracking you if it so chooses, including by hacking into your phone, accessing public security cameras to track your movements by facial recognition software, or any number of other means. Could the Trump admin access your iNat data? I’m sure. Would they need to? Not so much. So unless you’re going to throw away all your electronic devices and go live in a cave in the wilderness, I don’t really see the point of stopping something you enjoy.
I don’t really see the point of stopping something you enjoy.
i don’t have to stop it. i think i may be using data friendly alternatives like ObsIdentify and Flora Incognita, because they are not affected by CLOUD Act and FISA. it would be a little bit difficult to transfer my old iNat observations, but i still can have fun.
and yes, technically it’s possible for US Gov to hack these , but it’s more difficult and inconvenient than just forcing iNat (or Amazon) to hand over the data
He is not the sole source. He is the face of a regime that is supported by a considerable chunk of the US population either passively or actively. You are more optimistic than I am about Congress.
If you want staff to respond to this, they likely aren’t going to respond until Monday, seeing as how it’s Saturday night. In the future, you may want to directly email staff or post something like this during the work week.
I don’t see a point to closing your account because (1) the data is already out there where evil government agencies can recover it if they want and (2) if evil government agencies want to find you, they have MANY other, better ways to get it, like driver’s licenses, tax records, school records*, sometimes even surveillance records where you shop. Not posting where you’re traveling from here on out may or may not have value. Stopping all posting from now on may or may not have value. Undoing what you’ve done – well, you delete data that researchers and we fellow iNatters want to use, but this won’t prevent the government from finding it.
[ * – the ability of the alumni office at college to find graduates must be the envy of the CIA.]