Fish Market Observations

[sriharsha444]

I go to my local fish market sometimes, Can i still make observations of these fishes? Because i know where they are collected from, even though the observation is made miles away from where it is collected. I understand that it should be marked as not wild or captive but when i know the location it is collected from, Can i just put the collection location for the observation?

[gcsnelling]

I would absolutely use these observations, esp if you know the point of origin. Very rare species can often be located this way.

[pisum]

also see https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/how-to-deal-with-observations-of-fish-on-fish-markets/397

[cthawley]

Yes, I think the quoted solution on the linked thread is very useful

@charlie

I would either mark them as not wild or not the correct location. I can see the point about local small fish markets but unless you know how far their boat went from shore you can’t set the uncertainty buffer correctly anyway. I think marking not wild/captive makes a bit more sense than mapped wrong because the organism WAS found where observed, it just was brought there by a person. Also there is the potential that someday the ‘not wild’ observations will still be able to get research grade or train the algorithm whereas ‘mapped wrong’ locations are basically useless for most things

It’s very difficult to know the correct location for the fish, so these should almost certainly be marked captive/not wild. Those observations still have value though, including for training the CV.

On a slightly different angle, iNat observations are really about observers’ interactions with nature. So the location should be where you as the observer encountered the organism.

[sriharsha444]

So its good to upload them when you know the correct location?

[blue_celery]

@sriharsha444

Can i still make observations of these fishes?

Of course you can.

@sriharsha444

Because i know where they are collected from

Sorry but… how can you know it?

[sriharsha444]

@blue_celery

Sorry but… how can you know it?

Im friends with the folks who fish em, I know which dock the fish is collected from.

@blue_celery

Of course you can.

Yeah, im just wondering if they can be of “Verifiable” Quality and not casual grade.

[cthawley]

I would say that if you personally saw the fish at the dock and took the pics, and they were caught at the same dock, it’s fair to upload them there as wild.

Otherwise, I would not. Users should not upload photos or sounds taken by others - observerations should be the users experience with nature. A few pics taken by someone else very rarely is tolerated, but any systematic posting of other people’s pictures isn’t ok. You could also encourage the people fishing to make an iNat account and post their own photos.

[elpatitojuan2]

Yes, but if that’s the only way to share what could be an important observation, and the user knows what they need to know about the observed organism (location, date, etc.), then the observation is viable. Of course, we want iNat users to be able to experience nature for themselves, but we cannot underestimate important observations just because they don’t come directly from the user. Local fishermen just do their job, and probably won’t be very interested in uploading their catches to the internet.
The observer that observes the caught fish can call the observations his/her, anyway, since the fisherman is not taking pictures of the fish and sending them to the iNatter.

[dianastuder]

There is a West Coast of Africa fishing project - which works with the fishermen to record their catch. (Too many dead fish and bycatch for me - Mark as Reviewed)

[astra_the_dragon]

Please upload them. It’s valuable knowledge.

If you know the individual who collected the fish, and thus the correct location, that’s really great. But I’d do two things in that case:

1. write on the observation how you know the collection location, for future reference
2. make sure the accuracy circle on your location is large enough to cover the whole area in which the fish may have been caught.

[jasonhernandez74]

@elpatitojuan2

Of course, we want iNat users to be able to experience nature for themselves

Who’s to say what counts as a personal experience? I still remember walking down a beach and coming upon several tautog lying on the sand behind the angler who caught them. To this day, that is my only encounter with tautog.

[cthawley]

The issue isn’t whether observing a fisherperson’s catch is/isn’t a personal experience of nature - That type of experience is perfectly valid, just like observing roadkill, insects on a stickytrap, etc. No problem at all there.

The issue is whether the data associated with the observation represents the observer’s experience or not.

If the observation has the date/location of where the observer personally saw the fish, that’s great!

If the observer’s experience and their photo were on the dock/beach, but the date/location of the observation are of when/where the observer thinks the fisherperson likely caught the fish, there’s a disconnect/inconsistency.

In the case of the tautog, you probably have the best of both worlds - your personal experience of the observation also represents the angler’s catch. Two for one!

[diegoalmendras]

always is nice to have a chat with fishermen and asking for more details :)