I know you’re not going to change your decision, but since this is a thread about moderation decisions; what benefit is there to fully hiding or deleting posts rather than just hiding with the option to view? It bothers me not to know what posts you see as a problem.
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Seriously, this would have been a non-issue if the transphobic posts were just removed in the first place
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I disagree. They may seem inappropriate to those who tone police, but that issue has itself been raised. According to Bing Dictionary:
Tone Policing. Noun. 1. the action or practice of criticizing the angry or emotional manner in which a person has expressed a point of view, rather than addressing the substance of the point itself:
“tone policing is the ultimate derailing tactic.”
Banning the aggrieved party is strong evidence to the contrary.
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tone policing is telling someone they’re not allowed to be upset. you are very allowed to be upset and angry. so am I.
you are not allowed to harass people, make specific call-outs haranguing others, make accusations based on wild guesses about strangers, or deliberately obstruct the ability of this forum to operate. I didn’t come here to lord over anyone, I just wanted to say hi to my friends again after I spent a year and a half away.
It is deeply cutting and painful to me that my cis friends welcomed me back with open arms and love, and my queer peers are sh----g on me because I don’t meet your standards. just stop. please.
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Are forum members satisfied with moderation outcomes taken from initial post to now?
- yes
- no
0 voters
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The substance of the argument was specifically addressed above. Many angry and emotional posts expressing that point of view are still here.
The issues are, as I’ve said a few times: maliciously attacking other users (which is different than expressing anger when making an argument), and posting the same arguments again and again, which we deem inappropriate for this forum because nothing new is added to the conversation and it drowns out other voices.
Further malicious attacks or regurgitating the same arguments will also be hidden. They’re simply not leading anywhere constructive.
To be clear, nonbinary-naturalist was suspended for a week for malicious attacks against other users and for and posting the same arguments again and again - not for the substance of its argument. Many of the attacks have been hidden because we dont want to make attacks viewable.
We sent it a message pointing out these issues and asked it to take some time away from the discussion. We told it if it continued with the same behavior, it would be suspended for a week. It soon continued with the same behavior so we followed through with the suspension.
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Hi everyone.
I’m not an LGBTQIA+ individual, so I may not be the right person to say this but:
I think everyone should take a 1-day or longer break from this thread and the other one
to let emotions cool down so that nobody says anything that they will regret in the future.
Maybe during this break, everyone could go outside and enjoy mother nature?
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Just wanted to let you know I accidentally clicked this pole while scrolling and now it thinks I voted, when I didn’t mean to and don’t actually know what option I accidentally registered. I don’t seem to be able to remove or change my vote. (Edit: maybe I removed my vote? Not sure)
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I absolutely agree. I’m firmly convinced that the best way to achieve long-term mutual understanding and respect is by emphasising, not our differences, but what we all have in common… an interest in and love for nature. This is what unites every one of us, otherwise we wouldn’t be here at all. The multi-faceted life that exists around us, out there in the meadows, the forests, the marshes, rivers, oceans, deserts… Isn’t all of that so much greater than any one of us? What better foundation could there be for building bridges and healing wounds than sharing our love for nature, our amazement and our discoveries?
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click on ‘show vote’ and it will show what you voted for
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Er … “I apologize that you were hurt” is pretty much textbook non-apology. Where’s the agency?
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I’m sorry about that. As I was writing that sentence I intended to make a direct apology because I agree that “I’m sorry you were offended” apologies are disingenuous, but I made an error. I’ve amended it.
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Mods, is there any way we can get the other thread off of slow mode and see if it will stay on track for a bit? its impossible to have a good conversation in slow mode.
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I’m hoping that folks look at the poll as something more than a majority outcome, either yes - they did the right thing, or no - they need to resolve it differently.
If it’s close to 50/50, does it mean it’s okay to leave half the community unhappy with the outcome? If it’s 66/33, is it okay to ignore that third, 90/10, it’s okay to leave 1/10th unhappy, etc.
I don’t have a hen in this coop, but I’ve IDed enough observations, where folks added them to LGBTQ+ Naturalists and have attended many naturalist events where the same folks attended, that I think there’s a big overlap between the two groups.
If that’s the case, and given that queer-folks in this topic have already and repeatedly expressed themselves, how the resolution affects them and makes them feel, what portion of them would it alienate from using iNat to interact with nature? I think that’s the issue the poll highlights.
At least from how I’m reading it, the bigger issue is that @nonbinary-naturalist expressed its resolution to the misgendering posts and although moderators did something, it repeatedly expressed that this didn’t resolve the issue.
I’ve previously seen @nonbinary-naturalist as an enthusiastic forum contributor and identifier, who is appreciated and tagged in for help with IDs. I think its being banned from the forum AND feeling alienated from iNat is a net loss for the community, personally.
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We’ve been talking with sedgequeen and she’s asked us to remove her original post, which we’ve done. She’s also asked us to remove a sentence in the second post that, upon reflection and feedback, we felt was disrespectful and inappropriate. The sentence can be found in the edit history there.
We’re sorry it took us so long to come to that decision on the second post. We hope this can help everyone move forward, even though it’s not what everyone was asking for.
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It is also not sound in terms of integrity to speak in generalities like this when you know what the issue is. The issue is whether @nonbinary_naturalist is competent to know when it has been misgendered. And tiwane has stated that it is not:
What if it was you who was misgendered? Or, for that matter, deadnamed? And then some third party – perhaps a staff member – came along and said, “No, you weren’t.” Under what circumstances would you consider that acceptable?
It seems disingenuous to speak in generalities about “people can listen and disagree” when you know exactly what the issue is.
And amid all this drama, what do we see?
The irony: the person who wrote the offending posts put more effort into fixing the situation than the mod team did.
Nice words, but systematically portraying nonbinary naturalist as some kind of irrational or juvenile person who foolishly “wants everyone to be perfect” doesn’t fit with that sentiment. We are told that the hidden posts contained personal attacks; but we are unable to view ignored content so that we cannot fact-check that claim. We’re just supposed to take their word for it.
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Can you just stop with the aggression, you’re not helping the conversation at all.
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i don’t think this is a completely fair characterization of what happened, but regardless, doesn’t everyone prefer a resolution where the person who made the comment that caused offense had the opportunity to address the situation themselves rather than to have the machine step in to force a resolution? to me, this always seemed like it would be the best possible sort of outcome, although, to be clear, i don’t think there are any winners in this kind of conflict.
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I’m going to close this topic, it’s run its course. Explanations were given by staff, responses were made by the community, and after consultation with the poster, one of the original inciting posts was removed while the other was amended.
I hope everyone can take some time to step away and get outside if they can (or use Explore on iNat if they can’t). As has been said by others here, we’re all passionate about nature and enaging with other folks who are also passionate about nature.
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