Can we hold off on hiding posts unless it’s overt violations of the rules? After this whole post by the mods about how we have to leave things visible even though they are disagreeable, it seems really odd that suddenly a bunch of posts are hidden. Muting someone who is upset about being mistreated doesn’t seem appropriate and while i didnt see most of the muted posts, it probably pales in comparison to other things on the forum and site that are not muted. I know from the few i did see they were way less problematic and way less a violation of the rules than harassment i’ve seen directed towards myself or others on the site or forum which the moderators and certain curators insisted were not inappropriate. Why is a marginalized group having their posts muted where other groups were not?
Some hidden posts were direct attacks and were hidden for that reason. Others were repeats of arguments already made by the users who posted them that weren’t adding anything new, or were back and forths that weren’t addressing the topic.
There are still plenty of visible posts where I think everyone got their points across. Hopefully with slow mode on, the conversation can have some time to breathe.
Maybe that’s because people aren’t being listened to. Just because the staff explains their decision, that doesn’t make it the right decision. I don’t think you understand that you have done irreperable damage to the trust in our community. Doubling down only reinforces the damage.
wow, that’s a lot to wake up to.
I have a great deal of replies and feedback I’d like to make, but I mostly won’t right now. but I will point out: we want to remove content that is malicious. not content that is wrong, misinformed, or controversial.
I ask that, if you must draw a boundary between “us” and “them” you include people who are at least trying or who are also the targets. fascists won’t differentiate between a transmisc lesbian and an it/its person who insists everyone must be perfect all the time. we’re all getting carted off to jail, or lynched, or worse. the same. I want to strengthen bonds within the community despite our differences, or else in our anxiety and fear we will consume each other. I wish the world were perfect. I wish everyone had perfect empathy and infinite time to learn, and never, ever did anything that would cause another being pain. but that world doesn’t exist. I am sure I also have much to learn, but being personally attacked has put a bitter taste in my mouth, I’ll admit.
please… just love each other.
Disclaimer - I am actually transgender. And old and jaded enough to know what is coming.
Right now, Bob McTurdbucket, a hypothetical, raging transphobe and bigot who may or may not bear resemblence to another person, real or fictional, would be rubbing his hands with glee as he browses this discourse.
Decked in his cheetos powder-flecked T-shirt and stubble and lit only by the glow of his screen in his mum’s basement that smells of stale Mountain Dew, he starts screenshotting large sections of this and the original thread, cherrypicking bits at will, and digging through the profiles of participants, to create his magnum opus: A two hour long Youtube scree titled ‘BREAKING: TRANS (insert slurs here) BOYCOTT NATURAL HISTORY SITE FOR IDENTIFYING THEM AS HUMAN!!! WTFOMGMEGALOLZ XDXDXD’.
After a marathon recording session, he broadcasts it to his 500k followers, of whom 2k register on here just to harass and troll moderators and users alike.
I don’t agree with either side here entirely, only with iNaturalist’s broader mission to catalogue biodiversity, a mission that in my opinion is even greater than that of even my rights as a queer person. Controversial, I know. It is a mission that unites people from many different political backgrounds, ethnicities and nationalities, and attitudes towards us, because biodiversity is crucial to our own, our entire world’s survival.
So I do care when people say and do things that make it difficult for others to continue on this mission, and feel safe and respected enough to do so. Right now, I do not feel that the actions I have seen cross that threshold. That may not always be the case in the future.
The number of removed posts (without even an option to “view ignored content”) far exceeds the two posts that were requested to be removed.
“Assume that people mean well” only applies in the absence of evidence to the contrary. Note: this post was flagged and hidden, even though it did not contain any personal attacks. It still doesn’t so let’s see if it gets flagged again.
But. It feels like victim blaming to me. And I am, not the victim.
I’m going to push back against the “surveillance state” comparison. First, this is a privately run venue, not the government. Second, when everyone joins they are given a link to the guidelines, which state
In order to maintain our community, moderators reserve the right to remove any content and any user account for any reason at any time.
That’s a power that’s been used sparingly for the four years this forum’s been in existence, but it’s there when necessary.
Looking at these threads, if we were an authoritarian state then most of the posts here would have been hidden and users suspended for being critical of us, but that’s not the case. What we’re trying to do is moderate the discussion and that does include removing malicious attacks and posts that don’t move the conversation forward, as well as using tools like slow mode to encourage thoughtful posts and let everyone have a chance to speak. Negative pile-ons and back and forths between a handful of users aren’t productive.
We’re humans, and not perfect, but we’ve tried to make our process clear so that even if someone disagrees - and these are situations where reasonable disagreement is understandable - they’ll at least know why and can decide if they want to continue participating or not.
people can listen to you, and disagree any way. It is not logically sound to say that the only sign of someone’s having listened to you is that they then do what you tell them to do.
I agree with yalls core ideals, but as an individual I believe that it is impossible to force someone to change. you can explain, you can beg, you can scream, but you cannot forcibly make anyone have a belief or do something… short of actual force.
I’ve been through all sorts of hell and abuse myself. I’m not saying that as an excuse, I’m saying that in an attempt to show that I do understand, emotionally, viscerally, where you may be right now.
I used to stand where you are, terrified to my very core by the very real and powerful forces that are coming to bear on queer people in the West. I have had times where I viewed any person who was not perfectly aligned with my values as supporting the enemy. but that’s paranoia, anxiety and ptsd talking. if you want to live outside the confines of safe spaces, you have to learn to trust a little. believe they mean well even when they’re royally fucking up. you have to meet people where they are. yelling will only scare them away.
there’s a lot of people in these threads who don’t even know what dysphoria is. people who don’t know the 101. I appreciate the links to basic resources. and I agree – and have stated as such – that the problematic posts are misgendering. but the cost of interacting with a cishetnormative world is patience.
the mod team here are not DeSantis’s little cronies come to take you to jail. they’re people who believe yall have the right to be treated with grace and kindness. but they’re also beholden to their own bosses, to capitalism that makes it impossible to risk your job by snapping back, by many forces, and I know they are actively doing what they can to learn and improve.
also, a lot of private messages are being exchanged in an attempt to promote growth and conversation. it may shock you, but some people log in only once a day… every other day… less?
this also includes me, behind the scenes, talking to the other mods, explaining terms they don’t know, even pushing back on some of their decisions, and asking them to have compassion for people like nonbinary-naturalist. it’s scared and in pain and those feelings are completely real, completely valid. and, it has also posted quite a few things here which are inappropriate for the forum. both those things can be true at once.
as for the flags… long term clean up will have to be done, to ensure fairness and consistency. a lot of stuff is getting flagged. a lot of people are getting mad. and only staff are paid to do this, and even they have very limited time and are in USA timezones.
when Zooey Zephyr called out her Republican colleagues for having blood on their hands, she was being literal – lives are at stake in Montana, and lives have been lost. strong language was more than warranted, especially as she knew her words were falling on deaf and hateful ears. she was thrown out of the chambers and told she was inciting a riot. for that.
that is not where we are. when you speak on this forum, the people who are listening do care. the stakes are real, but they are about hurt feelings. yes, hurt feelings that worsen existing pain and trauma. but lashing back against people who at their core want you to be happy, healthy, and free… is not the same. flagged or hidden comments or temporary suspension from a forum are not the same as laws that deny you basic human rights. and I assure you, the mod team is using a light hand here.
the world is messy and complicated and I swear to you I am doing what I hope will create the greatest safety and well-being of my community. I promise. I don’t want to throw anyone under any bus. You can be angry at me, and you can say anything you want about me. I chose my name, Astra, from “per aspera ad astra”, because I want to be a source of light and love and compassion. there’s so much darkness and fear in the world. I’ve been through so much fear and pain. I’m going to do what I can for every queer person out there. and every marginalized person, including those who are neurodivergent, people of colour, everyone. I didn’t only choose “astra”, I chose the whole phrase because I too acknowledge the tortures I underwent – per aspera, through suffering. I know I’m going on, and I know I’m a mod and whatever, but I swear to you I do care about each of you and I think of you as a complete person. To the best of my ability.
I know you’re not going to change your decision, but since this is a thread about moderation decisions; what benefit is there to fully hiding or deleting posts rather than just hiding with the option to view? It bothers me not to know what posts you see as a problem.
Seriously, this would have been a non-issue if the transphobic posts were just removed in the first place
I disagree. They may seem inappropriate to those who tone police, but that issue has itself been raised. According to Bing Dictionary:
Tone Policing. Noun. 1. the action or practice of criticizing the angry or emotional manner in which a person has expressed a point of view, rather than addressing the substance of the point itself:
“tone policing is the ultimate derailing tactic.”
Banning the aggrieved party is strong evidence to the contrary.
tone policing is telling someone they’re not allowed to be upset. you are very allowed to be upset and angry. so am I.
you are not allowed to harass people, make specific call-outs haranguing others, make accusations based on wild guesses about strangers, or deliberately obstruct the ability of this forum to operate. I didn’t come here to lord over anyone, I just wanted to say hi to my friends again after I spent a year and a half away.
It is deeply cutting and painful to me that my cis friends welcomed me back with open arms and love, and my queer peers are sh----g on me because I don’t meet your standards. just stop. please.
Are forum members satisfied with moderation outcomes taken from initial post to now?
- yes
- no
0 voters
The substance of the argument was specifically addressed above. Many angry and emotional posts expressing that point of view are still here.
The issues are, as I’ve said a few times: maliciously attacking other users (which is different than expressing anger when making an argument), and posting the same arguments again and again, which we deem inappropriate for this forum because nothing new is added to the conversation and it drowns out other voices.
Further malicious attacks or regurgitating the same arguments will also be hidden. They’re simply not leading anywhere constructive.
To be clear, nonbinary-naturalist was suspended for a week for malicious attacks against other users and for and posting the same arguments again and again - not for the substance of its argument. Many of the attacks have been hidden because we dont want to make attacks viewable.
We sent it a message pointing out these issues and asked it to take some time away from the discussion. We told it if it continued with the same behavior, it would be suspended for a week. It soon continued with the same behavior so we followed through with the suspension.
Hi everyone.
I’m not an LGBTQIA+ individual, so I may not be the right person to say this but:
I think everyone should take a 1-day or longer break from this thread and the other one
to let emotions cool down so that nobody says anything that they will regret in the future.
Maybe during this break, everyone could go outside and enjoy mother nature?
Just wanted to let you know I accidentally clicked this pole while scrolling and now it thinks I voted, when I didn’t mean to and don’t actually know what option I accidentally registered. I don’t seem to be able to remove or change my vote. (Edit: maybe I removed my vote? Not sure)
I absolutely agree. I’m firmly convinced that the best way to achieve long-term mutual understanding and respect is by emphasising, not our differences, but what we all have in common… an interest in and love for nature. This is what unites every one of us, otherwise we wouldn’t be here at all. The multi-faceted life that exists around us, out there in the meadows, the forests, the marshes, rivers, oceans, deserts… Isn’t all of that so much greater than any one of us? What better foundation could there be for building bridges and healing wounds than sharing our love for nature, our amazement and our discoveries?
click on ‘show vote’ and it will show what you voted for
Er … “I apologize that you were hurt” is pretty much textbook non-apology. Where’s the agency?