Some kind of resource to review camera phones for their geotagging and photo quality

General
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Can we have an ongoing forum that recommends good phones specifically for iNatting, ie. for their camera and geotagging ability? (and warns against bad ones)
I’ve done a quick search and there doesn’t seem to be one.

The quality of the photos and more importantly, the ease and accuracy of its geotagging seems to vary quite a lot between phones.
This is relevant both for us iNatters who use their phones for observations, and also for the iNaturalist platform’s overall data quality.

For example, I need to get a new phone and a big factor for me would be knowing it would have a good camera and accurate reliable geotagging. Review of the photo quality you can generally find online (though they rarely say much about how good they are for botanical photography) but geotagging issues have given me quite a bit of uphill.
I’d assumed that the geotagging accuracy depended a lot on the network, but a few years ago I switched phones on the same network, and since then my observations geotags are often massively inaccurate (sometimes by many kilometers). It takes ages to correct them manually, and even then it’s not always possible to figure out where they were taken in featureless wilderness.

So..
It would be really nice if there was somewhere that iNatters reviewed new phones for iNatting. It would have to be ongoing, so new models can always be recommended (or warned against!) So shouldn%'t close after 60 days inactivity.

Does something like this exist already? If so apologies. I’ll delete this topic. But I’ve done a search around and couldn’t find anything like this.

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welcome to the forum

I personally use a ‘workaround’ solution.

I take most of my photos with a mirrorless camera that doesn’t have geotagging, so to address this, I have a geotagging app on my phone called Geotag Photos Pro 2. Works exactly as you’d expect, I just start a trip when I begin my walk, and it continuously (or you can pick intervals) tracks my location, and creates a GPX track. When I get home, I open the software on my desktop as well, choose the folder with my photos, and it geotags them all by matching the timestamps.

I have an iPhone SE, and over the last few years, the inbuilt geotagging seems to have become worse and worse, even in areas where it should be really good in theory and there is no obvious reason for it to perform poorly. But, and I have zero technical knowledge why, the Geotag Photos Pro 2 app is much better than the phone itself, even though it’s on the same phone… (is it accessing different satellites?)

I’ve tested it out by taking photos with my phone at obvious/well-mapped landmarks or other features, and then uploading two copies of the same image: one copy that was automatically geotagged by the phone with my location services turned on, and one copy for which I overrode that info with the coordinates from Geotag Photos Pro 2. Either the two were basically the same, or the app was better. Not a single example I’ve tested thus far where the default geotagging of my phone was more accurate

So my long-winded response here is that you may like to try using this app (and there’ll be other similar geotagging apps too that may have the same results) as a way to overcome the poor performance of your phone. I’ve used the app all over Australia across thousands of hours of taking photos, and can count on one hand the number of times something went wrong (and most of those times were when I immediately closed the app after starting a trip and didn’t give it a few seconds to register my location). Whereas my phone can sometimes take 15+ minutes to accurately find where I am, even in locations where it should be much faster, the app generally does it in 5 seconds or faster

Costs around 15-20 AUD. The only downside is the coordinates do not come with an accuracy value, you have to manually enter that metadata

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Thanks for the reply. That’s very useful to know. In fact, this would be another excellent example of what could go into the sort of forum I’m trying to propose!
It’s important and shoudl be up front for all iNatters to see (not tucked away in a comment here).
Btw I’ve saved the link to the Geotag Photos Pro app, and when I get my new phone I’ll trial it vs the inbuilt geotagging.

I’ve also noticed how geotagging has progressively vanished from hand-held cameras. Salespeople in the shops tell me that it’s because there’s insufficient power or processing in a camera to support geotagging. But that seems unconvincing because many cameras used to have geotagging, and phones can still manage it. An inherent regression in humanity’s tech knowledge seems also unlikely! Googling it I read that pressure from the authoritarian governments of some very large camera manufacturing (and purchasing) nations had caused it. They don’t want geotagging of photos for political or military reasons, and so it’s been phased out. Who knows. It’s still a bit inexplicable how technology seems to have regressed when it comes to geotagging - both with hand-held cameras and also it seems, with phones?

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I run a simple GPS tracking app in the background when in the field. I find (anecdotally) that it helps to stabilise the phone’s geotagging as the camera app draws from the same source I suppose. I could be wrong but I think the tracking forces it to stay up to date rather than start updating its location only when you pull up the camera.

In addition, as mentioned above, I then still have the GPX track to fall back on if something is not right but I find it keeps my points to within about 10m (unless the topography is steep but there’s not much to be done about that).

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Re: the geolocation part, phones [can] use different techniques to get a location:

  • satellites (a.k.a. “GPS” or “GNSS”), works almost everywhere, possibly very accurate if given some time, no network needed
  • network, guesses a location almost instantly, can be very inaccurate, needs a network (wifi, cell towers) in the vicinity obviously

Modern phones are usually capable of both, and can/will use both simultaneously unless configured not to. Specific use cases set aside, which “GPS logging” app/software is then used to record location info… does not affect measurement accuracy.
Using satellites only, my dirt-cheap, entry-level phone from years ago gets a usable location (i.e. to within ~15m/50ft) 95% of the time; if stationary/long-duration this gets better at ~5m/16ft. Good enough to record some passing orchid.

Re: the photo quality part, for naturalist use I’d be very wary of the “beautifying features” embedded in many devices nowadays - automagically blurring this or enhancing that, altering colors, etc. in order to turn each dull shot into eye candy. Reviewers might be assessing photo quality with “wow!” instagramers in mind, rather than “true-to-nature” botanists.

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Samsung S23+:

  • Photo quality: Poor in almost every use case
  • Gps accuracy: Not consistent, I’ve had observations outside in the center of a city with a geotag that’s off by 200m+, but also a lot of backcountry observations with geotags that are at least “close enough”

Recommend? No.

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I use an iPhone 14; it has a 14 MP camera. On its own, the camera is OK if you’re not zooming at all, but digital zoom, which is a necessity for detail, esp. on arthropods, is pretty grainy/useless. To upgrade, I have a Moment Macro case and lens. They are about $120 (for both; you have to make sure you’re buying the case that fits your phone specifically.)

It’s a solid, metal lens with really good optics, and with it, you can get some pretty great detail on critters (though you have to focus by moving the phone itself). But the results are definitely enough for ID in many cases and some can be pretty darn great. The images can tend be a bit soft at times, and you’ll def. end up with inadvertently blurry shots, but I try (and not always succeed) in weeding those out when uploading. Also, if you take a shot and it ends up blurry, but you shoot with “live mode” on on the iPhone, it’ll shoot little movies, which you can then go back through and use to find a crisply focused shot.

A very typical shot of a Bristly Cutworm Moth pal from ye olde Lensey Lohan (as I affectionately call the lens):

image
image1920×1440 103 KB

I haven’t had many problems for geotagging on my end through the iPhone, though I usually geotag within a fairly big radius marked out, as poaching can be a concern in some cases. As long as I’m in the right city, I consider it “close enough” for iNat’s purposes. (Unless I’m in a park or some sort of conservation entity, then I try to hit the bullseye.)

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There is a fair amount of discussion on this subject in this thread: Geotagging Photos - Tutorials

My preferred GPS logging app is called Easy GPS logger but I don’t think it’s available in app stores any more. Gaia GPS seems to be another option that works on both Android and iOS. GeoSetter is the best program I’ve found for adding coords from the track onto your photos.

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When I shop for phones, the camera is my main concern. I look at a lot of photography reviews across the web before purchasing a new one. There are some very in depth phone camera reviews from photographers that go into detail, with side-by-side comparison shots from different phones in different conditions.

My experience with the S23+ is very different than @Joeb’s – I’ve been quite satisfied with the camera overall, and use it for almost all my plant, gall, and leafmine photos. The photos are adequate. Nothing compared to my DSLR, of course, but it is a phone, that I can carry in my pocket, and it saves having to switch lenses on my camera constantly, since I typically have a telephoto or supertelephoto lens for birds when I’m out. The newer models of the S series are better. (Which is never a guarantee, sometimes cameras go backward with new phone models if the manufacturer decides to emphasize something different.)

Some photos with the phone:

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/288492434 Rust Fungus
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/288451402 Galls
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/287902386 Snail
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/285248285 Leafmine
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/284885294 Weevils

Not going to win any photography awards, but I’m typically going for identifiable record shots when I’m using my phone.

My main complaint about the phone is how dang slippery it is. I have a rugged case on it with a pop socket, which makes it heavier, but since I’m mostly using it out in the wilderness, while also carrying my DSLR, leaning out over ponds and off bridges and so on, it’s a necessity.

On the other hand, the S-series Ultras have much much better optical zoom, and will be my likely upgrade when I finally get a new phone. (But I will be looking at reviews online first.) It’s convenient to have a phone that can snap zoomed photos when I don’t have time to get my camera out for a rare bird, or whatever.

Below is an example of a Barred Owl photo taken with my phone, and a photo taken at the same time from the same location, by my partner.

20230707_162012 s23+ barred owl
20230707_162012 s23+ barred owl1920×2560 1.15 MB

s23+

image s22 ultra barred owl
image s22 ultra barred owl960×1280 288 KB

s22 Ultra

My partner’s father who was with us had the current iPhone which you couldn’t even make out the owl in his photos. It did not have any optical zoom, only digital. However, I’ve heard iPhones are better since then. And now my partners have an s24 Ultra and an s25 Ultra and I’ve still got my s23+… I need to upgrade (likely to s25 ultra but I will be devouring reviews first).

I’ve never had any problems with the GPS being off at all; it’s always been correct within meters. It tracks my path while using eBird accurately, as well. I know far less about the topic so I can’t say what influences this.

However, I use battery-sapping SnapBridge to geotag the photos from my Nikon, which I carry everywhere with me, and it’s always terribly off, grouping all of the photo locations into one or two random spots along the way (or from 20 minutes after I take the last photo, while I’m on the train home), and I have to go through and correct them all when I upload them. It’s super obnoxious. I have a feeling this is more about blutooth or something else than the GPS itself, as I also sometimes get extremely bizarre exercise route results when paired with my FitBit (watch) as well. I am going to try @thebeachcomber’s technique!

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Sony Xperia V III. Pretty good for insects, plants, mushrooms and roadkill. The occasional non timid mammal. Poor telephoto performance.
Terrible GPS accuracy.

Use an old Realme 3 Pro with an app called GPX Recorder to create .gpx tracks while I’m out, which I then use to assign locations to photos with GeoSetter (free on Windows).

Clunky, wish it was all in one, but make do. One day I’d love a 1" bridge camera with a sharp lens, subject detection and inbuilt GPS…

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I’m not sure exactly what you are envisioning, but the forum does allow user to create wiki posts that are editable by others.

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As a camera nerd who’s followed the switch from DSLRs to mirrorless, I suspect there are a few technical and economic reasons GPS antennae are no longer being included in camera bodies (happy to be corrected):

  1. Mirrorless bodies are much smaller than DSLR bodies, mainly due to the flange distance (distance between lens mount and sensor) being a lot shorter. With less space available in the body and with more heat being generated by more powerful processors, there’s less room for GPS antennae and it’s more difficult to deal with heat generated by the antennae. Also, space is being used to house things like in-body image stabilization, which many more people will use than will ever use GPS, and is much more marketable.
  2. Mirrorless cameras drain more battery than DSLRs, so leaving out GPS removes one more battery-draining function, and one that few people use.
  3. Manufacturers are outsourcing GPS recording to their mobile apps and using (in my experience unreliable) bluetooth phone connections to record GPS data.

The very large Nikon Z9 has built-in GPS, but I don’t think GPS has been included in Canon or Sony’s latest top-line mirrorless cameras.

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I also use my phone to create a GPX track since my camera does not support geotagging. I use the app Caltopo, I chose it based off some post that tested a small selection of apps and concluded it had the best ratio of accuracy to battery life impact.

I appreciate that it has a clean interface without annoying ads or pop ups, and that you can select your sampling rate (Low: every 30 seconds, Medium: every 15 seconds, High: every 5 seconds, Highest: every 2.5 seconds) so if I’m worried about battery consumption I can bump it down and if I’m moving quickly I can bump it up.

I did find it slightly confusing to navigate at first and I have had issues with the GPX export (in my experience directly exporting the GPX often doesn’t work, but choosing the “send link” option and then downloading the gpx from there does).

I use geosetter to sync my photos which has been frustrating often but much less so than every alternative I’ve tried, and does seem to be very powerful (everything I’ve ever wanted to do in there I’ve been able to figure out how to do, though often it took me some time).

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One camera that can be recommended is the OM Tough series which is up to TG7. It has built in GPS, excellent macro capabilities (focus stacking and bracketing), is compact, can be used underwater and is tough – if you drop it it should be fine. Its main drawback is it lack of zoom, only 4X optical but it costs considerably less than a typical mirrorless camera with good macro and telephotos lens. I have a TG6 and I make good use of it.

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This is an older paper, but the information is still applicable.

Phones use a combination of techniques to determine location and that mix is lumped together as A-GPS, Assisted-GPS. This includes the GPS receiver, cell tower signals, and wifi. Mixing these can result in inaccurate locations as, for example, if the signal from a certain cell tower is suffering interference, is blocked, or reflects off of a surface that can confuse the phone and it may shift the location.

3rd party apps may be only using the GPS receiver in the phone rather than the A-GPS mix, and in some situations that may be more reliable for location, as long as you have a good satellite signal.

One of the drawbacks with phone GPS (not A-GPS) is that dedicated GPS units generally have at least 12 channels and talk to multiple satellites, averaging the information and getting a pretty good location (not great for elevation though). Phones don’t have the space for that many GPS channels, so even with GPS only locations can get wonky, hence the reliance on A-GPS for phones.

As an example of this, most iPhones use only 2 GPS channels, but my Garmin watch connects to at least 4 satellites and has a much better location accuracy as a result. My handheld GPS units connect using up to 12 satellites and are even more accurate, at the cost of size and weight. Back in the '90s doing glacier research we had large bulky GPS units with separate screens, batteries, and antennae, all linked to a permanently connected static base-station GPS via a radio relay and these were accurate to the millimeter level.

In short, phones are limited in their ability to accurately find location, so they use additional tricks to do so, but those tricks can sometimes mean a reduction in accuracy.