"Types of Moths": How many have you seen?

[jasonhernandez74]

@lynnharper

I’ve always wondered why moths haven’t gotten away from bilateral symmetry in terms of camouflage.

I suspect it is because bilateral symmetry is such a foundational feature of all lineages with a “front” and “back.” If they need each eye to be a mirror image of the other, legs in pairs with no odd ones out, wings the same shape on both sides, that probably presents an obstacle to asymmertrical coloration.

[lynnharper]

I agree, but I would think there’s be some evolutionary way around that obstacle - chimeras, maybe?

[sunguramy]

@dull2shinetoo

Little White Lichen here, meet my large friend Tuliptree Silkworm

Was really hoping to get one yesterday. We have so many host species for it and ive found caterpillers. Nope. Got some sorta sphinx i need to ID still is the largest visitor. And a lot of tulip tree beauties but im almost tired of those xD

[sunguramy]

You’d have to change everything from almost the begining; embryo level. Even things that dont seem symmetrical (starfish) are just radially symmetrical. I cant really think of anything that doesn’t have symmetry in animalia. To be ambulatory it helps to he balanced. If the wings were not symmetrical, flying would be damn difficult to impossible. If you change the wing pattern, you are changing the wing; and will loose the symmetry that allows movement. I am not super familiar with pigmentation in moths; but in mammals and generally speaking in sinplistic form, melanin (or pigments) goes to the location needed based on many other factors (gradiants of molecules, location of proteins, etc) in early development, and the way to move that “map” would he to change the physical shape. Changing the shape not in symetric manner = loss of ambulation, messes up things like your digestive tracts, brain development, etc etc. a lot of this happens really early on

The entire development process would have to change. Which is more talking about making an entire new kingdom at that point.

Chimera doesnt really help. Most chimeras are not viable. Those that are, youre limited by dna; and you wont pass on the chimera part youll pass on whatever your gamets are.

[w4v]

Placozoa aren’t symmetrical, some Ascidia aren’t symmetrical (in adult form), these are some weird animals though!

[fffffffff]

Ascidia larvae are symmetrical, bilateral symmetry is a sign of actively moving animals, so mesh of cells or sitting ones can not get it or loose it. Moths don’t need to lose it because their wings, legs and mouthparts are very variable in shapes and sizes.

[w4v]

I understand that. I was just replying to the specific part of the comment where sunguramy says “I can’t really think of anything that doesn’t have symmetry in Animalia”. I know that ascidians and other tunicates have bilateral symmetry as larvae, but in the adult stage they don’t so I was just using the adult stage as an example of a non-symmetrical animal. (also, some radially symmetrical animals are actively moving too.)
I wasn’t arguing with the commenter about moths, I don’t think there’s a reason for them to be asymmetrical

[fffffffff]

This question about symmetry started with moths, that’s what I answered to, plus it’s a moth topic, so this all should be moved.

[w4v]

I got a bit off topic - sorry

[chipperatl]

Bird Poop -

Gets Wifi -

Large Friend -

Beautiful pattern probably -

Impossible to ID to species -

That one, you know with the thing, arg I forgot the name -

Stuffed Toy -

So dizzyingly complex that it consumes your soul -

Ooh, green -

[klyle161]

Wow! Those are SPECTACULAR!!!

[klyle161]

By the way, thank you for this. Another “Wow! I didn’t even know these existed!!!” moments for me.

[swampster]

Thought I’d try to do a caterpillar addition, so here it goes:

Bird Poo: Eastern Giant Swallowtail caterpillar.
Gets Wifi: ok, so this one is hard to do with caterpillars, but how about the “antennas” on this Definite Tussock Moth caterpillar.
Large Friend: Carolina Sphinx caterpillar fattened on garden tomato plants.
Beautiful Pattern (Probably): this tiny Episemasia solitaria caterpillar.
Impossible to ID: unknown caterpillar, seriously, someone please help me ID this!
One with the thing: Banded Tussock Moth caterpillars.
Stuffed Toy: Luna Moth caterpillar. This Spotted Tussock Moth caterpillar also looks like a teddy bear.
Dizzyingly Complex: Red-spotted Purple caterpillar.
Ooh Green: Io Moth caterpillar and this hairstreak (?) caterpillar.

[fluffyinca]

Stuffed toy:

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/95164275

Bird poop:

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/104447991

Beautiful pattern, probably:

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/88613268

That one, you know, with the thing:

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/105344814

Large friend:

[doodoodoodoo]

I’ve (sadly) never seen any “so dizzyingly complex that it consumes your soul” or “large friend” but I’ve seen most other categories! Sadly, I don’t have iNat records for most of them and don’t necessarily know the species.

[teellbee]

@lynnharper

I agree, but I would think there’s be some evolutionary way around that obstacle - chimeras, maybe?

I would think adaptive processes could make asymmetry in moths, if advantageous and not too disruptive to flying. Haven’t flat fish lost their symmetry with the way their eyes shifted to the same side of the head?

[w4v]

Bird poop!!! (haven’t identified it, nor uploaded to iNat yet)
Edit: uploaded it. @ fyodorp identified it as Dysstroma truncata :)

[broacher]

After 3 months of iNat observing I’m beginning to see how so many observers ‘fall into the light’ and get obsessed with moths. So much beautiful variety, for sure, but also much more approachable than say, most flies or butterflies. I have only a handful on my list, but one I spotted a couple days ago in a city park was pretty new to me.

I bet this one could be the poster child for the popular ‘Movember’ campaigns.

Oh, yeah. Agriphila vulgivagellus. Or, the Vagabond Sod Webworm Moth (to their friends).

[lynnharper]

Ooo, flatfish are a good example!

[robotpie]

My turn! Was kinda difficult to select since moths are among my most numerous taxon observations.

1. Bird Poop - Abraxas sp. (Also fits category 5 at least within Hong Kong)
   

   

2. Gets wifi - Lymantria mathura
   

   

3. Large Friend(s) - Lyssa zampa and Actias ningpoana (two for one!)
   

   

4. Beautiful pattern, probs - Deroca sp. (Since its transparent we typically see what’s underneath but not the moth itself)
   

   

5. Impossible to ID to species - Arctornis sp.
   

   

6. That one, you know, with the thing - arg, I forgot the name - Eristena bifurcalis (there is another genus that looks really similar and I can tell them apart, but I can never remember the name!)
   

   

7. Stuffed toy - Quasinarosa fulgens (I don’t image you’d want to hug the caterpillar any time soon)
   

   

8. So dizzingly complex that it consumes your soul - Hilarographa sp.
   

   

9. Oooh, green - Comostola pyrrhogona (Ok, maybe slightly more towards the bluer side)