When does a caterpillar become a pupa?

I linked all my Observations of the same specimen, originally very much a caterpillar, now very much a pupa, using the Similar Observation Set feature but I am a bit asea deciding what Life Stage to put for one particular Observation.

Here is the whole set.

Here is an Observation from yesterday morning at the beginning of its pupation. As you can see, as well as having assumed the position, it has taken on an orange tint all over.

In terms of Annotations, should that Observation be a pupa (because there is no turning back) or a caterpillar (because it still looks more like a caterpillar than a pupa)?

Thank you in advance for thoughts and reasoning.

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I think the photo in question would be pupa. It is no longer the same as its larva form. The color and the physical positioning is what I base it on.

For me it would still be a caterpillar, as there are still all those characteristics visible before the final step.

But I am not a lepidoptera-buff… I am sure one of those will enlighten us :slightly_smiling_face:

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I’d call it a caterpillar still (until it starts actually moulting off its caterpillar skin to reveal the pupa underneath - once the skin splits open, I’d call it a pupa)

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I would say the same as @deboas . The moment of that molt is the moment of transformation, just like the moment of molt from pupa to imago.

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I wouldn’t put too much thought into this. The whole of natural sciences is full of labels and borders. This is because of the way we humans think, we have the urge to have nature categorized nicely. In reality there are no labels, of course. So your butterfly is in the transitional stage between caterpillar and pupa, the molting is just one of the in-between-steps taken. Therefore I think both labels (caterpillar and pupa) would be correct at this stage.
But it isn’t really important imo.

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No, I don’t think it is important and I am definitely not losing sleep but I did find myself wondering since I was trying to make sure I had added that Annotation for each.

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I would say a caterpillar has legs, a pupa doesn’t. But unfortunately you can’t see that on the photo. I must confess I didn’t even know that there is a moult from larva to pupa.

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every insect stage has a moult. it is just that people for some reasons assume that from larva to pupa, you add layers (some sort of cocoon) when in reality pupa is what lies underneath and you need to moult.

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People use the annotations to filter for a life stage that they’re interested in. For plants, you can choose “flowering” and “fruiting” simultaneously if the plant shows both. Can you choose both life stages for an insect?

To be honest, I have zero right nor enough knowledge to comment on this. But from my biased and clouded perspective, this is like watching a sapling grow into a tree,. If I showed someone a small shoot, it would be a sapling. If I showed a giant oak, it would be a tree. But when exactly does one become the other? Is there one particular moment where a sapling turns into a tree? It’s a process, so each step matters. I don’t think there’s an exact moment when a larva turns into a pupa. But then again, I’m probably wrong and someone is going to tell me so. If I am, please do. But anyways, that was my philosophical moment of the day. Time to get back on my homework about greek philosophers.
EDIT: Questions like these are the ones that haunt me in my sleep. Luckily for me, I’m nocturnal and I don’t sleep much anyways.
EDIT 2: A gradient is another good example. In a gradient from black to white, where exactly does black turn into white?

When I annotate butterflies in between the stages I always choose Pupa just because there are way less observations of pupas than adults or larvae (just 0.5% in my region).

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You cannot, life stages are exclusive.

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That observation is still a caterpillar. It hasn’t moulted or undergone the shape change of the pupa. The defining transition is quite rapid (a few minutes), and it has not yet been completed.

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The larva here is in the prepupal stage. still larva, but imagine a forming pupa inside of the larva. the moment it starts the molt, it becomes a pupa. i’d annotate that as larva.

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