First DSLR and an adaptable lens recommendations

[transient]

Hello all,

After using a friend’s, I’m looking to make the jump to a DSLR from a smartphone, with inaturalist being one of the main use cases. I mostly photograph conifers and flowing plants in the PNW, and have recently started enjoying photographing mushrooms as well. I love how simple and streamlined the inat app workflow is for making observations on the trail, but I would like to be more present in nature, make more deliberate observations, and really just not have to constantly interface with my phone and the rest of the world. For the same reasons I want to keep my workflow as simple as possible. I see you more dedicated observers tagging locations manually or by syncing timestamps with gpx locations, and I’m not built for that. I would also like to use the camera for some landscape & friend pics on the trail if possible with minimal additional burden to the setup.

In pursuit of my above goals, and following a good amount of research on this forum and others, I’ve more or less landed on the Canon 6D Mk II as a good candidate. Full frame for low-light under heavy canopies, cloudy days, evening shots, etc. DSLR for the improved battery life and lower cost over mirrorless. While a bit heavier than I’d like, something’s gotta give. I’ll think of it as a fitness aid. I’d like to get a decent starter setup for <$1k and see plenty of used bodies in my area for ~$500, which is doable.

Where I’m hung up is what kind of lens I should be looking for. I would really really like to not have to carry multiple lenses. While I see some amazing macro shots of insects, and insects on insects, I do not think I need that level of detail. My phone has been just about good enough in that regard - I’m okay with some bee observations staying casual observations if it saves me carrying another lens. I have a cursory knowledge of photography, but not really enough to know the implications of the difference lens characteristics. I did some research but even so was having a hard time getting from the explanations to “what do I need to photograph a hemlock, a mushroom, and a group photo with some friends at the summit?”. Hoping you all can provide some insight :)

Thanks!

[lynkos]

Sorry, I’ve no experience with full frame, so I don’t think I’m going to be much help regarding lenses. I’m just jumping in to say… think VERY carefully before going down the full-frame DSLR road. You haven’t asked for advice on this, so I’ll leave it at that, but if you’re still in some doubt, let me know .

[transient]

I am open to counter points on the camera! I see that full frame lenses are full-frame specific, so less available and more expensive. If you think I could get comparable performance out of an aps-c setup (which also has GPS) I’m all ears! My only real reason is low light performance, and the subsequent adaptability. I’m coming from a place of almost complete ignorance and happy for any real-world experience people are willing to offer.

[spiphany]

Most of the development happening now is in mirrorless, not DSLR, and full-frame tend to be larger and heavier. If there is any way to do so, I would recommend trying out the camera and lens you are interested in before purchasing – you won’t have much enjoyment with your new camera if you discover that you don’t like how it handles.

Since you will be mostly photographing plants and presumably won’t need a long telephoto lens, weight may be less of an issue. But if there is a chance you may want to expand to other types of photography in the future, you may find that your choices for additional lenses will be more limited than for other cameras/models.

I don’t think full-frame necessarily offers a huge advantage over smaller formats in low-light conditions. Performance will also depend on the maximum aperture of the lens as well as on your camera settings, post-processing of high-ISO photos, etc. You may also wish to use a flash for close-range photos in shady environments, in which case low-light performance is irrelevant.

If you will need to be able to get close-ups for diagnostic photos of plants, make sure that whatever lens you decide on has a good minimum focus distance – check the lens specifications. You might also read lens reviews to judge suitability for your intended uses. You basically have the choice between zoom lenses, which offer more flexibility but often have smaller apertures, and prime lenses, which are often higher-quality but less flexible. If you will be photographing in wooded conditions and will need to get both detail images and wider-angle views but won’t always have room to move closer or further from your subject, you may appreciate zoom capacity.

Unfortunately, most camera manufacturers seem to have ditched in-camera GPS and instead rely on bluetooth communication with your phone for geotagging. So if in-camera GPS is non-negotiable, you probably do not have a lot of choices.

[eyekosaeder]

I agree with what has been said about full-frame DSLR cameras. I’ve tried my dad’s Nikon D7 for a week and hated it because it was very heavy. I would not have taken it on longer walks.
I use an apsc camera (Fuji XT5) and much prefer it and I’ve found the battery life to not be an issue. It lasts a full day.

@transient

I would really really like to not have to carry multiple lenses. While I see some amazing macro shots of insects, and insects on insects, I do not think I need that level of detail

Your best option for lenses will probably be a zoom lens, then.
Additionally, for macro shots, I can’t recommend the Raynox DCR-250 clip on enough. You clip it to the front of (almost) any lens and can take very decent macro photos without the hassle of changing lenses. It’s very small, light, and costs very little (60€), so you can carry it in your pocket.

[LostInCR]

You might check out the canon r7 for a mirror less camera at the same price point. I think you will find the R series to be an improvement across the board from the DSLR models.

The lens you pick, though, is likely to more important to you than the camera body. Doing birds and mammals might want something in the 400-600 mm range. Fungi and plants would need something with a shorter focal distance. To pick the right one means someone needs to know what they like now and what they will like later. I have multiple lenses but almost always use my 100-500 mm with a shorter focal distance. I do plants, birds and insects mostly and I can get them all with that lens. It might be best to go on a few hikes with someone who has equipment similar to what you want and see if they can get the kind of photos you want to get.

[spiphany]

@LostInCR

almost always use my 100-500 mm with a shorter focal distance. I do plants, birds and insects mostly and I can get them all with that lens.

I suspect from what the OP has indicated about potential uses (conifers, plants, some mushrooms and insects, as well as landscape and group photos on the trail), a lens that covers shorter focal distances would be preferable – maybe 30 or 50 at the shorter end up to 100 or 150 at the longer end.

[transient]

Thanks all for the inputs! It sounds like full-frame isn’t overly beneficial for my use, and restricts my lens options. Acknowledge that mirrorless might be the future, but I don’t see many with gps that are within my price range (the Samsung Galaxy NX is apparently mirrorless. The Leica SL is feasible, but also happens to be full-frame). I see a few DSLR APSC options with GPS that I’ll have to look into;

• Nikon D5300
• Samsung Galaxy NX
• Sony A55
• Sony A65
• Sony A77

For lenses, I don’t have many acquaintances into photography, but will see if I can find someone willing to let me take some shots with their setup to help narrow things down. Sounds like 30-50 to 100-150 is a starting point, maybe give a ~100-500 a spin if I get the chance. I’ll keep an eye on minimum focus distance when looking at lens specs to facilitate close-ups, and the Raynox DCR-250 clip on looks like a great solution for macro shots!

Appreciate any additional advise anyone may have. I’m a bit busy with the holidays but will be back when I make some progress!

[yongestation]

Totally understand your hesitancy to do so, but I will say that while the syncing with GPX route can admittedly be a bit of a headache to get started with if you’re not super tech inclined, once you do get used to it it comes down to like just a few extra clicks every camera trip, and would really open your options up a lot. (I just use my phone to record my track, nothing fancy).

[lynkos]

Looks like others have more than covered my doubts, so I’ll just add that I agree with @yongestation, it really would be worth you having a try at syncing images with a recorded GPX track. It can literally be two clicks and it opens up a whole realm of other possibilities. Also consider that having a GPS system active on your camera all the time can drain the battery pretty fast.
It is worth you making this decision very carefully, as once you have committed to a given system and brand, it can get very difficult and expensive to change in the future if you find you’re not happy.

[transient]

Alright, if I forgoe my built-in GPS requirement, what sort of body should I be looking at? What sort of benefits am I getting over something like a used D5300?

[broacher]

The Raynox is a great accessory, and it never wears out or is tied to brands. I keep mine in my pants back pocket. If you use it on a lens wider than the clipping Max you need to get a filter ring adapter but also vignetting becomes a problem the wider the diameter of the lens it clips to. For maximum magnification, the 250 works best on lenses with 200mm focal length.

I do mostly macro, and went with a used C frame camera body, the Sony 6300. Nice and light and quite good (for its vintage) and shoots 4k which is often the best way to catch moving subjects.

The lens I use with this body is a (used, of course) manual Laowa 100mm macro. It will focus all the way to infinity too, and it acts like a 100mm telephoto of you need it. I’ve even used this to catch stuff like this while hunting for bugs.

A lot of people get little nervous about manual lenses, but it’s not like autofocus is that useful in macro work, anyhow. Plus, manual means you’re not using battery power or being stuck with electronics adapters etc.

As for exposure, I use a manual flash on low power and set the shutter speed to 1/200 . I find for macro shots I just crank the aperture right down to f22 and keep it there for the trip (best for maximizing depth of field).

With aperture and shutter nailed down, and if natural light is fine, I set exposure to auto ISO as my way to effectively get autoexposure and only focus on adjusting the focus, on the lens barrel.

Of course, high ISO shooting is another fear factor for many, because of noise. I use and rely on DxO PureRaw software to get rid of that worry. It’s another tool that crosses camera and lens brands and models. Even really old RAW shots can usually be vastly improved with this software package. For a few hundred bucks it’s like adding at least 2 stops to almost any lens or camera with a RAW output option.

I even use PureRaw in the same way with my Nikon P950, a superzoom, small sensor bridge cam that I got mostly for birding. If I’m traveling, the 950 plus the Raynox 250 and finally PureRaw gives me an incredible subject size range. Birds and bugs, and more. Extremely light, simple, multi-range solution that you can carry in a carry-on bag.

[spiphany]

@transient

what sort of body should I be looking at

Honestly, any APS-C or M4/3 mirrorless body paired with a good lens should allow you to take good quality photos for your described uses while offering a reasonably compact size. It doesn’t necessarily need to be the newest model, though features such as autofocus, image resolution etc. may be improved in newer models.

Which system you choose is more a question of:

• User interface
• Ergonomics
• Range of lenses available for the mount
• Any special features you desire (in-camera image stabilization, top-of-the-line autofocus, focus bracketing/stacking etc.)
• Price

I’ll repeat my suggestion to try out a camera if possible before buying – the user interfaces of the different brands differ quite a bit and it is a fairly individual matter what you will find you are happy with. Ditto whether you need a viewfinder and whether you want it in the middle of the camera or on one side.

It’s a bit like asking what brand of power drill you should buy – it depends.

I purchased my first interchangeable lens camera a couple of years ago, having previously never used anything more sophisticated than a very basic point-and-shoot and my cell phone camera. I ended up with a Sony APS-C, for a variety of rather arbitrary reasons, including availability at the time I was shopping. If I were to start over now, knowing more about what type of photography I gravitate towards, perhaps I would have chosen a different brand for some functions I wish I had that aren’t at present possible with any of Sony’s models. Or perhaps I would stay with Sony. And another person with different needs and preferences might make different choices.

[transient]

Thanks for that point of reference @broacher , very helpful! And thanks @spiphany for your continued guidance. I have a buddy who inherited a Sony a7 III that I can spend some time with, and think I have a friend with a Nikon as well that I can spend some time with. I’ll try to at least give the different brands a spin before making a choice.

[lynkos]

Before you decide, also take a look at M4/3 (micro four thirds). I recently transitioned from a chunky Canon DSLR to an OM System camera and respective lenses and it has completely changed the pleasure I’m getting out of photographing nature. Advantages of the OM System are: both camera and lenses are VERY light weight compared to other systems, greater depth of field and more reach thanks to the crop sensor (super for both macro and wildlife photograph), really and truly weather sealed, excellent auto-focus (even for macro), stabilisation, trouble free in-camera focus stacking/bracketing etc. There is no GPS, but the camera can connect to a smartphone app that automatically add the coordinates to the photo. I have to say I’ve never tried this as I have used the GPS track/image timestamp synchronisation technique for years now and I find it really quick and easy.
There are quite a few excellent secondhand offers around, I went that route for the lenses and it worked out really well for me. Take a look at MPB, they’re highly recommended in the photography community and I have had an excellent experience with them.
Oh and don’t let anyone tell you that M4/3 can’t cope with low light. In the few months that I’ve been using the system, I’ve done a fair amount of woodland under-canopy shooting and I’ve managed to hike the ISO up to 16000 (or even 26000) with absolutely excellent results, thanks to the almost miraculous denoising of DxO PureRaw software. Can’t recommend it enough.
This Tipula was taken at an ISO of 20000

While this beetle larva was at a staggering 26000

Happy to answer any other questions if you have any

[LostInCR]

I will add a negative about the phone/GPS solution, though. My iPhone and EOS R5 work well together right up until they don’t. There seems to be a handful of reasons this can happen and I will say the app has improved since I first started using it circa 3 years ago, but they still occasionally disconnect. If you do not notice the small flashing gps icon, you can go quite a while without collecting data. I’ve felt like a red warning label that had to be manually cleared would be a good solution but Canon does not agree.

[yongestation]

I’ve always had issues with the official live bluetooth syncing methods, but recording a GPS track on your phone independently of the camera and then syncing the photos with the track at home means you dont have to worry about any disconnects in the field.

[transient]

Yeah, looking online the GPS over Bluetooth seems to have not great reviews. Syncing with gpx seems to be the most pain-free option, or Nikon and Canon have auxiliary GPSs that are presumably pretty good? Surprised I haven’t been able to find a GitHub project that hooks an Arduino w/GPS hat to the Sony cameras.

@lynkos I’ll be sure to give M4/3 bodies a shot!

[GothHobbit]

@transient, I don’t know what options for walk-in shopping are available in your area, but if you have a dedicated camera store available, walk in and talk to the staff. Most people who work at a place like that are also photographers.

Mike’s Camera is my resource (I’m in Colorado, but they also have a presence in Northern CA), and among the services that they offer is gear rental. If you can find a place local to you that does the same, it might be a good try-before-you-buy option.